Aminet 25/Aminet 25 (1998)(GTI - Schatztruhe)[!][Jun 1998].iso/Aminet/docs/misc/Studio0198.lha/Studio16_0198.uucp

Text File | 1998-03-19 | 600.1 KB | 15,146 lines

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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
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If you would like to find out if some of your assossiates or friends are on
the list you can send a request to [e-mail] and type
'who studio16' in body text.

(We have passed 70 subscribers today).

Ok, some general stuff: please try to trim the postings. Trimming the
postings will increase readabillity and decrease bandwidth wasted. Also try
to keep a max linelength of 76 chars to avoid linewrapping in postings.

We have a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions). You can get this FAQ by sending
an email to [e-mail] and put 'get faq' in the subject line. You
might find some of the question you carry answered in this FAQ. Don't be
affraid to come forward if you have something on your mind! Also see email
header of any posting on this list for more info.

If you are interrested in getting the Studio 16 support archive which
contains developer docs (fileformats) and several tools, you can get this
archive from Aminet in dev/misc/Studio16add.lha or from Pauli Porkkas web
page http://www.iki.fi/~pporkka/


- Kenny

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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: tdavis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Subscribing
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 20:38:00
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tdavis wrote:

>Now that I'm on the list, is there an archive of previous messages?

Not from the majordomo, but I can send you (and anyone else who would like
to receive) an UUCP file from my private database. I have stripped out
administration messages, binaries and test messages. The file contains just
below 500 messages (including today's messages). It will be archived as lha,
lzx and zip, let me know what you'd prefer.

If you use Thor you just parse the UUCP file into your database with
"thor:bin/parseuucp <your system> <uucp-file>".


- Kenny

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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Apps
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 20:39:00
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Gord Clink wrote:

>Does anyone know if the Studio16addon project includes the possibility of
>creating additional apps for use within Studio16?

It doesn't. To achieve that we need developer (API) docs for Studio 16
version 3 (studio.library 4.2 etc.). You can of course create apps to
accompany Studio 16 poping up at the same screen, but no direct interfacing.

The Studio16 add-on project is containing developer docs on the fileformats
pluss tools to handle those.


- Kenny

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X-Message-No: 1214 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: All <[e-mail]>
Subject: OctaMed SS
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 20:40:00
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Just FYI (For Your Information):

I spoke with Thorsten Hansen, Amiga author of OctaMed Sound Studio about
save (mixer rendering) to Studio 16 fileformat. He told he was about to
redesign the OMSS GUI and would create a new sound interface to allow
external plugins for the program. This means when it will be available we
can create a plugin to allow save, load, play and record with Studio 16 from
OMSS.

Unfortunately we don't know (yet) how to feed sound directly to the cards,
but a file saver/loader will save much work for us who use OMSS atleast.


- Kenny

From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:28:12 -0600
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From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: SMPTEout -Reply
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 17:28:00
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Thanks Serge for all your input!!  I feel kind of foolish though, after reading your reply, I discovered I had the TEAC real-to-real wound wrong, which was causing un-due tension on the heads. After rewinding the tape properly, my problem disapeared.... Hopefully for good!

I hope your not too upset with me after that generous lengthy reply!!  :)

Thanks again everyone!!

Gord Clink

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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:13:11 -0000
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X-Message-No: 1216 (database)
From: Don Cox <[e-mail]>
To: Serge A Guilbert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SMPTEout -Reply
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 16:13:00
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On 20-Jan-98, Serge A Guilbert wrote:

>Here's hoping I haven't bored you out of your wits, and I hope it helps.

Many thanks for this really excellent and helpful contribution.
Did you ever try the SMPTEout module with the Amiga genlocked to a video
camera? That ought to give a more accurate timing, but I haven't had a chance
to test it myself.
You don't mention what version of the SMPTEoutput you tested. I have 1.02.
As the software multitasks, perhaps it is being delayed by having to share
time with other tasks?
--
Don Cox
[e-mail]

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From: Jacob Ellis <[e-mail]>
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On 20-Jan-98, Don Cox wrote:

>Many thanks for this really excellent and helpful contribution.
>Did you ever try the SMPTEout module with the Amiga genlocked to a video
>camera? That ought to give a more accurate timing, but I haven't had a chance
>to test it myself.

I've only used it here with genlock enabled and sync to video selected,
even on really bad/abused/old decks the SMPTEOutput module has always been
frame accurate.

>You don't mention what version of the SMPTEoutput you tested. I have 1.02.
>As the software multitasks, perhaps it is being delayed by having to share
>time with other tasks?

Same version here. I always run it with nothing else running and do not
disturb it while it is striping. :)


Jacob
--
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:32:43 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
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Subject: [S16] SMPTEout
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 06:32:00
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Don Cox's words on 20-Jan-98:

>Many thanks for this really excellent and helpful contribution.
>Did you ever try the SMPTEout module with the Amiga genlocked to a video
>camera? That ought to give a more accurate timing, but I haven't had a chance
>to test it myself.

--

Yeah, rotary-head technology is more stable and accurate typically. That is
one reason the Tascam DA88 mentioned by Mr Mula in this thread is a good
bet...

--
     *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
    _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
    \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:02:45 -0600
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From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
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Subject: RE: SMTPEout
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 19:02:00
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Dhomas, I realize that the addons at this point are not new apps, but I'm wondering if the project will, down the road maybe, include some new apps for use within Studio16? In other words, will the programmers be able to create modules to use within Studio16, like the cuelist, the editor etc....

Gord


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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:14:00 -0800
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From: McKittrick, Mike T <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Recording
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 19:14:00
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I said:
> >others noticed this anomaly.  Or, perhaps my hardware is a bit off.
> >Here's another question though.  When playing back a pair of samples
> >(stereo) from the samples editor (whether a range or not) and you hit
> >the stop button, the left channel stops first, then the right channel
> >after a little lag time.  Again, is this common or could it be my
> >hardware.  I realize these are real minor and just wonder if others
> have
> >similar results.
>
Kenny said:
> It must be due to how the (probably double) buffering works in Studio
> 16.
> The left channel gets loaded first then right and as the DSP is fed
> with
> data from the buffers all the time you will hear part of the last load
> before the buffers gets cleared. Since right channel was loaded last
> that
> channel will be cleared last as well of timer reasons.
>
I ran a little test over the weekend. While recording (from the Recorder
module) to Ram:, I monitored the increasing file size in quasi real time
thru DOPus.  Both channels were always identical.  When I stopped the
recorder, the right channel file was 2048 bytes longer then the left
channel.  I presume the 'file closing' within the multi-tasking
environment (or something similar) is the reason the two files are not
identical sometimes.

Regards, Mike
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: McKittrick, Mike T <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Recording
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 22:02:00
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To: "McKittrick, Mike T" <[e-mail]>
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McKittrick, Mike T wrote:

>I ran a little test over the weekend. While recording (from the Recorder
>recorder, the right channel file was 2048 bytes longer then the left
>channel.  I presume the 'file closing' within the multi-tasking

I must rather be a last file /write/.. however, interresting size too, 2048
is exact 2kb. Is this always the case ? Those of you who have this problem,
has anyone ran the MessageMonitor app ? Perhaps there is a delay when the
recorder send a "stop recording" message...

What does the last data contain ? nulls or random data etc. ?
What filesystem do you use and what disk type SCSI/IDE ?

(I am just trying to locate where the problem might be - I don't have this
problem myself).


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 20 Jan 98 20:40:01 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: All <[e-mail]>
Subject: OctaMed SS
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 20:40:00
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Just FYI (For Your Information):

I spoke with Thorsten Hansen, Amiga author of OctaMed Sound Studio about
save (mixer rendering) to Studio 16 fileformat. He told he was about to
redesign the OMSS GUI and would create a new sound interface to allow
external plugins for the program. This means when it will be available we
can create a plugin to allow save, load, play and record with Studio 16 from
OMSS.

Unfortunately we don't know (yet) how to feed sound directly to the cards,
but a file saver/loader will save much work for us who use OMSS atleast.


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] 20 Jan 98 20:39:05 +0100
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X-Message-No: 1225 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Apps
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 20:39:00
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Gord Clink wrote:

>Does anyone know if the Studio16addon project includes the possibility of
>creating additional apps for use within Studio16?

It doesn't. To achieve that we need developer (API) docs for Studio 16
version 3 (studio.library 4.2 etc.). You can of course create apps to
accompany Studio 16 poping up at the same screen, but no direct interfacing.

The Studio16 add-on project is containing developer docs on the fileformats
pluss tools to handle those.


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] 20 Jan 98 20:38:25 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: tdavis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Subscribing
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 20:38:00
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tdavis wrote:

>Now that I'm on the list, is there an archive of previous messages?

Not from the majordomo, but I can send you (and anyone else who would like
to receive) an UUCP file from my private database. I have stripped out
administration messages, binaries and test messages. The file contains just
below 500 messages (including today's messages). It will be archived as lha,
lzx and zip, let me know what you'd prefer.

If you use Thor you just parse the UUCP file into your database with
"thor:bin/parseuucp <your system> <uucp-file>".


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] 20 Jan 98 20:35:22 +0100
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If you would like to find out if some of your assossiates or friends are on
the list you can send a request to [e-mail] and type
'who studio16' in body text.

(We have passed 70 subscribers today).

Ok, some general stuff: please try to trim the postings. Trimming the
postings will increase readabillity and decrease bandwidth wasted. Also try
to keep a max linelength of 76 chars to avoid linewrapping in postings.

We have a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions). You can get this FAQ by sending
an email to [e-mail] and put 'get faq' in the subject line. You
might find some of the question you carry answered in this FAQ. Don't be
affraid to come forward if you have something on your mind! Also see email
header of any posting on this list for more info.

If you are interrested in getting the Studio 16 support archive which
contains developer docs (fileformats) and several tools, you can get this
archive from Aminet in dev/misc/Studio16add.lha or from Pauli Porkkas web
page http://www.iki.fi/~pporkka/


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:00:18 -0800
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From: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
To: McKittrick, Mike T <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Recording
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 22:00:00
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On 20-Jan-98, McKittrick, Mike T wrote:

>I ran a little test
>the right channel file was 2048 bytes longer then the >>left channel.  I
presume the 'file closing' within the multi-tasking
>environment (or something similar) is the reason the two files are not
>identical sometimes.




I think Kennys got it right.










--
-------------------------------------------------------

Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:01:18 -0500
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From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
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Kenny spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:

> If you are interrested in getting the Studio 16 support archive which
> contains developer docs (fileformats) and several tools, you can get this
> archive from Aminet in dev/misc/Studio16add.lha or from Pauli Porkkas web
> page http://www.iki.fi/~pporkka/


Gee Kenny... have you forgotten about the Studio 16 support site?

  http://www.youngmonkey.ca/hands/files/Sunrize/index.html

--

dhomas.

**********************************************************************
*                                                                    *
 *    young monkey studios     EMail:  [e-mail]        *
 *      ----------------         WWW:  http://www.youngmonkey.ca/   *
  *       dhomas trenn                                             *
  *                            Snail:  797 Mitchell Street         *
 *                                     Fredericton, NB              *
 *   Phone:  [phone]            CANADA    E3B 3S8            *
*                                                                    *
**********************************************************************

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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:29:30 -0800
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X-Message-No: 1230 (database)
From: McKittrick, Mike T <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Recording
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 22:29:00
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I said,
> >I ran a little test
> >the right channel file was 2048 bytes longer then the >>left channel.
> I
> presume the 'file closing' within the multi-tasking
> >environment (or something similar) is the reason the two files are
> not
> >identical sometimes.
>
Gary said:
> I think Kennys got it right.
>
Yup, I agree (after re-reading it).
-Mike








> --
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
> Singer-Songwriter / Producer
> Seattle, Washington, USA
> Team *AMIGA*
>
> ---
> *** The *Studio* *16* mailing list - /see/ /header/ /for/ /more/
> /info/
>
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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:20:57 -0600
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X-Message-No: 1232 (database)
From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: OctaMed SS
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 23:20:01
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Kenny, Since there are some programs, like Dissidents sample editor program (I can't remember what it's called), that can feed sound directly to the cards, or so I hear, are they not interested in sharing this secret or what?

Gord Clink


You wrote:

Unfortunately we don't know (yet) how to feed sound directly to the cards,
but a file saver/loader will save much work for us who use OMSS atleast.


- Kenny





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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:06:46 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Fiends <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Pro Solution for Myopian Urges
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 12:06:00
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Gord Clink's words on 21-Jan-98:
>>Kenny, Since there are some programs, like Dissidents sample editor
>>program (I can't remember what it's called), that can feed sound
>>directly to the cards, or so I hear, are they not interested in
>>sharing this secret or what?

Kenny's:
>Unfortunately we don't know (yet) how to feed sound directly to the
>cards, but a file saver/loader will save much work for us who use OMSS
>atleast.

--

Is myopia a disfunctional attribute of association with the former
Commodore?

As I have mentioned more than once in this list: the people at
dissidents--publishers of Midi Sample Wrench (www.dissidents.com) seem
like good people. But everyone should find out for themselves--by emailing
or calling (or snail-tracking to) dissidents and mentioning this list/
project.

It won't hurt to mention the use of, or interest in, WRENCH. Kenny can't
do it all you know.  8-}  And do the same with anyone else who might have
some connections.

For us to get a modern, useful Studio16 thingie, it is going to take an
effort. Some of us here want an integrated environment that can do just
about anything a pro expects from ProTools on the Mac, which is the
multi-generational big-daddy on the block.

So lets get others to realize there is a growing and committed (spending)
base of AD516 users who want the real thing. After all the Commodore-era
burns these small companies had, is it any wonder they are low-profile in
the Amiga [marketplace]?

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
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dhomas trenn wrote:

>Kenny spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:
>> page http://www.iki.fi/~pporkka/
>Gee Kenny... have you forgotten about the Studio 16 support site?
>  http://www.youngmonkey.ca/hands/files/Sunrize/index.html

Oops, sorry 'bout that one dhomas :-)


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 20 Jan 98 22:02:00 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: McKittrick, Mike T <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Recording
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 22:02:00
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McKittrick, Mike T wrote:

>I ran a little test over the weekend. While recording (from the Recorder
>recorder, the right channel file was 2048 bytes longer then the left
>channel.  I presume the 'file closing' within the multi-tasking

I must rather be a last file /write/.. however, interresting size too, 2048
is exact 2kb. Is this always the case ? Those of you who have this problem,
has anyone ran the MessageMonitor app ? Perhaps there is a delay when the
recorder send a "stop recording" message...

What does the last data contain ? nulls or random data etc. ?
What filesystem do you use and what disk type SCSI/IDE ?

(I am just trying to locate where the problem might be - I don't have this
problem myself).


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] 21 Jan 98 00:32:28 +0100
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dhomas trenn wrote:

>Kenny spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:
>> page http://www.iki.fi/~pporkka/
>Gee Kenny... have you forgotten about the Studio 16 support site?
>  http://www.youngmonkey.ca/hands/files/Sunrize/index.html

Oops, sorry 'bout that one dhomas :-)


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:27:19 +0900
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From: Rene' Schaap <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: RE: Cuelist Questions
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 17:27:00
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On Sun, Jan 18, 1998, at 02:41 PM, CMM wrote:

> >On 05-Jan-98, Kenneth "Kenny" Nilsen wrote:
>
> >>Ok, I have made a litte tool for this. If you want to edit the crops on
> the
> >>Cuelist and view the region in the editor this should be useful. What you
> >>do: Edit the crops on the cuelist on the entries you want to change. When
> >>you want to see them graphically in the editor run the little tool I
> made.
> >>Then select the samples and start the editor. Choose "Show regions" from
> the
> >>option menu and select the region named "Cuelist crop". This will show
> the
> >>range based on the crops you defined on the cuelist. From here you can
> >>adjust the region and update it if needed.
>
> >>Let me know and I can send you the tool - anyone else who'd like to
> receive
> >>this tool, just let me know.
>
>
>
>
> Kenny, Send me this too. I'd like to give it a try.



Yoo Kenny, sounds interesting program you mentioned, please send it to me
it so i can check it out.
I will reply my findings in the studio16 mailing list ASAP.


SeeYaa










Rene'(DSP) Schaap


        _
       ( ) No Empty tape Productions.
       ------------------------------
Get your Masterplan ready for the interactive decade.

Email   :    [e-mail]

Homepage:    http://www.dutch.nl/net

Voice   :    0031 (0)35 52 42 72 0

FAX     :    [phone]




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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:28:48 -0500
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From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Pro Solution for Myopian Urges
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 02:28:00
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greenboy spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:

> As I have mentioned more than once in this list: the people at
> dissidents--publishers of Midi Sample Wrench (www.dissidents.com) seem
> like good people. But everyone should find out for themselves--by emailing

I didn't think MSW could play back on AD516... only load Studio16
format audio files - BIG DIFFERENCE.  The developer's documentation for
most of the audio file format has been available for awhile.

--

dhomas.

**********************************************************************
*                                                                    *
 *    young monkey studios     EMail:  [e-mail]        *
 *      ----------------         WWW:  http://www.youngmonkey.ca/   *
  *       dhomas trenn                                             *
  *                            Snail:  797 Mitchell Street         *
 *                                     Fredericton, NB              *
 *   Phone:  [phone]            CANADA    E3B 3S8            *
*                                                                    *
**********************************************************************

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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:02:42 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Fiends <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Forward Into The Past
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 14:02:00
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> = dhomas trenn's words on 21-Jan-98:

>I didn't think MSW could play back on AD516... only load Studio16
>format audio files - BIG DIFFERENCE.  The developer's documentation for
>most of the audio file format has been available for awhile.

--

    A Crazy Little Thing Called ARexx...

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:06:46 -0500
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From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Forward Into The Past
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 04:06:00
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greenboy spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:

> >I didn't think MSW could play back on AD516... only load Studio16
> >format audio files - BIG DIFFERENCE.  The developer's documentation for
> >most of the audio file format has been available for awhile.


>     A Crazy Little Thing Called ARexx...


That's not direct playback support for the AD516... not even close.
For that matter, Turbotext also has support for the AD516.

--

dhomas.

**********************************************************************
*                                                                    *
 *    young monkey studios     EMail:  [e-mail]        *
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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:06:24 +0500
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From: Brian Fields <[e-mail]>
To: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Subscribing
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 17:06:00
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On 21-Jan-98, Kenny Nilsen wrote:
>tdavis wrote:

>>Now that I'm on the list, is there an archive of previous messages?

>Not from the majordomo, but I can send you (and anyone else who would like
>to receive) an UUCP file from my private database. I have stripped out
>administration messages, binaries and test messages. The file contains just
>below 500 messages (including today's messages). It will be archived as lha,
>lzx and zip, let me know what you'd prefer.

>If you use Thor you just parse the UUCP file into your database with
>"thor:bin/parseuucp <your system> <uucp-file>".


Thanks Kenny,

I would like one.

Brian


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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:56:25 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Fiends <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] The WORLD marches on...
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 15:56:00
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> = dhomas trenn's words on 21-Jan-98:
>I didn't think MSW could play back on AD516... only load Studio16
>format audio files - BIG DIFFERENCE.  The developer's documentation for
>most of the audio file format has been available for awhile.

greenboy sez:     A Crazy Little Thing Called ARexx...

>That's not direct playback support for the AD516... not even close.
>For that matter, Turbotext also has support for the AD516.

--

So now YOU are the judge of what support is valid support? WRENCH from
/years/  ago still has better support than many of the fudgy little one-
use tools I have seen discussed. It's easy to use, does its intended job,
which is to audition samples that are being edited by WRENCH /without/
/having to save out/--and it works correctly. So go ahead and edit
samples in TurboText or a hex-editor or whatever it is you propose.

Meanwhile music-editing and sound-for-video on other platforms will
continue to march forward. Who knows, maybe rexx-like intercommunication
will become all the rage there, as has (1)animation (2)video (3)multimedia
(4)pre-emptive multitasking and (5)more than a few colors. (Rumor: people
are editing, processing, and storing sound in *greater* than 16 bits now).
Get educated. Then maybe we can give ourselves a greater sound-tool and
have more fun.

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Forward Into The Past
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 04:51:00
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greenboy wrote:
>    A Crazy Little Thing Called ARexx...

Hi,

I actually started a project a year ago called "KStudio.library". This
library interfaced to Arexx and used the arexx comands of Studio 16.
However, due to a bug in the arexx environment it sometimes crashed when
closing files and therefor where useless. Otherwise it could solve (atleast
temporarly) the problem of lacking play capability. Another limitation was
that it could not play from RAM without some nify timing routines which
would not be possible due to how arexx works. :-/  What I did was to format
the args from the library call into an arexx message and sent it and waited
for a return which I reformatted and gave back to user. As you see it would
also be slower than programming arexx directly (I was desperate.. ;)

Do you know how the Sample Wrench uses the Arexx comands ?

If the 4.2 (Studio 16 3.x) library was compatible with the old 2.x there had
been no problem today. I aslo know that the Scala EX module is limited to
only play from disk (Disk IO module) and not memory. I think actually Studio
16's own Disk IO module is the only program I have seen capable of doing
that (memory<->dsp buffering). :-/

Therefor we need one person that knows the v3 system. Mr Ben Fuller, do you
read this ? Are you interrested and do you have time to help us on this one?

What do you guys think of paying for the capability (f.ex. an AHI driver) ?


- Kenny

From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:24:49 -0800
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From: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
To: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Recording
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 04:24:00
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On 20-Jan-98, Kenny Nilsen wrote:


>I must rather be a last file /write/.. however, interresting size too, 2048
>is exact 2kb. Is this always the case ?

No, not for me.  It seems erratic...from 2k up to 8k for me.   I have two
Amigas
that both do it.  I don't know that I would call this a problem as it doesn't
seem to effect anything, and only happens using the recorder which I only use
as a "button on" way of monitoring my input while recording into the cuelist.

>Those of you who have this problem,
>has anyone ran the MessageMonitor app ? Perhaps there is a delay when the
>recorder send a "stop recording" message...

Haven't tried this.


>What filesystem do you use and what disk type SCSI/IDE ?

I'm using FFS and SCSI with both my 3000 and 4000.
Recording to RAM gets the same results






-------------------------------------------------------

Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:47:55 -0500
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From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: The WORLD marches on... Bill Cosby would say SO?
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 05:47:01
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greenboy spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:

> use tools I have seen discussed. It's easy to use, does its intended job,
> which is to audition samples that are being edited by WRENCH /without/
> /having to save out/--and it works correctly.

Please, send me this ARexx script.  I'm very curious as to how it uses
ARexx to playback sounds in memory with an AD516.  This could be a very
important thing to see.  (Or I could be half asleep and missing
something key here).

> Meanwhile music-editing and sound-for-video on other platforms will
> continue to march forward. Who knows, maybe rexx-like intercommunication
> will become all the rage there, as has (1)animation (2)video (3)multimedia

Has already started...

> (4)pre-emptive multitasking and (5)more than a few colors. (Rumor: people
> are editing, processing, and storing sound in *greater* than 16 bits now).

It's not a rumour... It's kind of pointless to store sounds in greater
than 16 bit.  Well, not totally true, but close enough.  Just like it's
pointless to sample at higher than 44.1 or 48 K.  But then Coke does
taste different than Pepsi.  Or doesn't it?  I wouldn't know, I don't
drink either.

As for processing sounds in greater than 16 bit... the Amiga (as other
platforms have, too) has had software for a long time that does this.
If Studio16 had any effects processing of it's own, it would likely do
it too.  Processing in 32 bits or more is very common, for the very
important reason that it decreasses calculation errors (overflows).

> Get educated. Then maybe we can give ourselves a greater sound-tool and
> have more fun.

Now, that's a personal stab at me... not at a software package.  This
is pretty childish.  I'm pretty sure that I know more about sound and
the Amiga than most Amigans.

If it wasn't for ME, Kenny would never have started this Studio 16
project.  Ask him!  Of course, now he probably blaims me for it having
taken over his life!  :)


As for Sample Wrench... well, you should have a look at SoundFX.

--

dhomas.

**********************************************************************
*                                                                    *
 *    young monkey studios     EMail:  [e-mail]        *
 *      ----------------         WWW:  http://www.youngmonkey.ca/   *
  *       dhomas trenn                                             *
  *                            Snail:  797 Mitchell Street         *
 *                                     Fredericton, NB              *
 *   Phone:  [phone]            CANADA    E3B 3S8            *
*                                                                    *
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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:49:09 -0800
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From: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink & Serge Guilbert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Syncing to Tape
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 04:49:00
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Gord: glad to hear your sync problems went away.  I'd say
X-UIDL: a4733d61a67b14c369e5f168a9cb855e

you were lucky.  As my earlier post suggested, syncing to a tape deck can get
dicey.


Serge:
thanks as well for your detailed post on syncing to tape.
Going to a stand alone smpte generator was the next thing
I was going to try but never got around to it.

I have to say though that my trouble shooting didn't bring me to the same
conclusion about the Sunrize SMPTE Output.

I drive a second AD516 card in a 3000, using SMPTE Output
running on my 4000 all day long.  In fact I alternate which machine is the
master depending on which set of tracks I am working on at the time, and I
have never had
slippage or the famous "Your SMPTE source is running too fast or slow for
Studio16" prompt.
Actually I take that back, sometimes if a machine has been chasing SMPTE that
has been
stopped at the source, after ten minutes or more (this is rare but has
happened) I will
get the prompt.  Mind you this is when there in no SMPTE present at all.

The moral of your storey I thought was "if you are going
to sync to tape, make sure your deck is in top running
order".

In my case, a new "rotary head deck" as refered to by Mr.
Greenboy, will deliver that rock solid sync that Studio16
so craves.





-------------------------------------------------------

Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] 21 Jan 98 04:51:13 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Forward Into The Past
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 04:51:00
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greenboy wrote:
>    A Crazy Little Thing Called ARexx...

Hi,

I actually started a project a year ago called "KStudio.library". This
library interfaced to Arexx and used the arexx comands of Studio 16.
However, due to a bug in the arexx environment it sometimes crashed when
closing files and therefor where useless. Otherwise it could solve (atleast
temporarly) the problem of lacking play capability. Another limitation was
that it could not play from RAM without some nify timing routines which
would not be possible due to how arexx works. :-/  What I did was to format
the args from the library call into an arexx message and sent it and waited
for a return which I reformatted and gave back to user. As you see it would
also be slower than programming arexx directly (I was desperate.. ;)

Do you know how the Sample Wrench uses the Arexx comands ?

If the 4.2 (Studio 16 3.x) library was compatible with the old 2.x there had
been no problem today. I aslo know that the Scala EX module is limited to
only play from disk (Disk IO module) and not memory. I think actually Studio
16's own Disk IO module is the only program I have seen capable of doing
that (memory<->dsp buffering). :-/

Therefor we need one person that knows the v3 system. Mr Ben Fuller, do you
read this ? Are you interrested and do you have time to help us on this one?

What do you guys think of paying for the capability (f.ex. an AHI driver) ?


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Mon, 21 Jan 2008 00:14:10 -0600
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From: Brandi Brisson <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Paying for AHI
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 8 07:14:00
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Kenny, I would pay for an AHI driver for sure..... and I would pay for
anything significant that enhances Studio16 itself as well!! I hope I am
speaking for everyone else here too... .we cant expect the best and not pay
for it!!!!

Gord Clink

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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Brandi Brisson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Paying for AHI
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 06:30:00
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Brandi Brisson wrote:

>Kenny, I would pay for an AHI driver for sure..... and I would pay for
>anything significant that enhances Studio16 itself as well!! I hope I am
>speaking for everyone else here too... .we cant expect the best and not pay
>for it!!!!

I will not be the one to deside. I hope it will be free too. If I could make
it I would certainly make it for free, but I hope Mr. Fuller will consider
"helping us out". There are, as I have mentioned, 70 people on the list and
I think a large percent of us are interrested in an AHI driver. I would like
to hear from Mr Fuller himself what how he view things.. Mr Fuller ?


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 21 Jan 98 06:30:17 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: Paying for AHI
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 06:30:00
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Brandi Brisson wrote:

>Kenny, I would pay for an AHI driver for sure..... and I would pay for
>anything significant that enhances Studio16 itself as well!! I hope I am
>speaking for everyone else here too... .we cant expect the best and not pay
>for it!!!!

I will not be the one to deside. I hope it will be free too. If I could make
it I would certainly make it for free, but I hope Mr. Fuller will consider
"helping us out". There are, as I have mentioned, 70 people on the list and
I think a large percent of us are interrested in an AHI driver. I would like
to hear from Mr Fuller himself what how he view things.. Mr Fuller ?


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:21:24 -0600
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From: CMM <[e-mail]>
To: Brandi Brisson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Paying for AHI
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 07:21:00
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On 21-Jan-08, Brandi Brisson wrote:
>Kenny, I would pay for an AHI driver for sure..... and I would pay for
>anything significant that enhances Studio16 itself as well!! I hope I am
>speaking for everyone else here too... .we cant expect the best and not pay
>for it!!!!

>Gord Clink

I too would pay for an AHI drive. I responded to a post to this effect
on USENET months ago and still haven't seen anything yet! I can't remember
who posted the thread though. Also, I had contacted Martin Blum over a
year ago regarding this and he said he'd love to, but would need the
developer docs for 3.x. I tried for months to get hold of them and was
contacted by an individulal that said he had 3.x dev docs, but was unsure
about copying them for me because of a non-disclosure agreement he
had signed with Sunrize Industries. Anyway, after several email he finally
copied them and mailed them to me. Unfortunately, they turned out to be
dev docs for 1.x. :( Anyway, perhaps they never existed as some have said.



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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:53:38 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Fiends <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Don't tread on me says Bart Simpson
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 18:53:00
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> = dhomas trenn's words on 21-Jan-98:

>>which is to audition samples that are being edited by WRENCH /without/
>>/having to save out/--and it works correctly.

>Please, send me this ARexx script.  I'm very curious as to how it uses
>ARexx to playback sounds in memory with an AD516.  This could be a very
>important thing to see.  (Or I could be half asleep and missing

This is a commercial program. Perhaps you should check it out as a demo or
buy it. Especially if you have stated opinions about it without ever
having checked it out. Talk to the programmer. Of course, the more
/modern/ version is on Windoze and NT. The Amiga version is several years
old.

(If only everybody was serious enough to buy the stuff, we could probably
have more top-level developers interested in the Amiga again. But it would
take some convincing after all the debacles and the high attrition rate.)

>It's not a rumour... It's kind of pointless to store sounds in greater
>than 16 bit.  Well, not totally true, but close enough.  Just like it's
>pointless to sample at higher than 44.1 or 48 K.  But then Coke does
>taste different than Pepsi.  Or doesn't it?  I wouldn't know, I don't

Of course it isn't a rumor! And I guess your ears are more golden than all
those guys that have been mastering since the days of vinyl. They insist
in 20 and 24-bit storage. Maybe you have never noticed "noise-floor"
effects before. Or zippering. Or seen how many people have looked for
algorythms to dither sound during fades to and from the noise-floor. Not
to mention signal-to-noise ratios.

(As far as I know, music is more sublime, and worthy of closer inspection
and philosophizing than any cola product I am aware of. At one time I
recall guys saying we didn't "need" more than 4096 colors, or larger
screen displays. I hope I wasn't one of them. ;-) I bet several here on
the list would enjoy a higher spec, and be capable of hearing and using
it--

>As for processing sounds in greater than 16 bit... the Amiga (as other
>platforms have, too) has had software for a long time that does this.
>important reason that it decreasses calculation errors (overflows).

Part of my point! And this is also one of the reasons to store sound in
higher bits. So that each time it goes through a save or store until it
reaches the final master and even onto archival, it will not suffer from
conversions and processing rounding-errors. Read articles in EQ and Mix,
go to AES, etc.

>>Get educated. Then maybe we can give ourselves a greater sound-tool and
>>have more fun.

>Now, that's a personal stab at me... not at a software package. This is
>pretty childish. I'm pretty sure that I know more about sound and the
>Amiga than most Amigans. If it wasn't for ME, Kenny would never have
>started this Studio 16 project. Ask him! Of course, now he probably
>blaims me for it having taken over his life! :)

No more personal than you were previous to my reply. Just more upfront
about it. I applaud Kenny's efforts. But this has nothing to do with a
personal stab or software package(s). It is about seeing things for what
they are.

        ===== We All Suffered from Big-Daddy Gould & Uncle Mehdi,
                  and the Foster Homes Afterwards =====

The Amiga community has tendencies found in the families of hard-core
abusers. Some members of the family make apologies for the deficiencies,
deny they exist, change the subject; try to draw the attention elsewhere.
But if we want to solve the problems (and I do!) we have to acknowledge
they exist, and find successful models to study, emulate, or improve upon.

>As for Sample Wrench... well, you should have a look at SoundFX.

Yeah, I'm probably buying it. If it's got the goods. Otherwise perhaps
Roland, Emu, Akai, or Apple and Digidesign. Even though I love the Amiga
and all that it has stood for.

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:33:23 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Pay the Piper, Dance into the Future
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 19:33:00
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> = Kenny Nilsen's words on 21-Jan-98:
>greenboy wrote:

>>    A Crazy Little Thing Called ARexx...

>Hi,

Hey.

>I actually started a project a year ago called "KStudio.library". This
>library interfaced to Arexx and used the arexx comands of Studio 16.
>Do you know how the Sample Wrench uses the Arexx comands ?

No. I would talk to dissidents. But I believe most programs that depend on
timing merely have internal processes do the actual jobs. The ARexx
commands they design are merely to communicate to the program to do it,
not the actual agents of the process. But I don't program in any language
from this era well enough to understand <duh, doh, dos: the declension>.

>If the 4.2 (Studio 16 3.x) library was compatible with the old 2.x there had
>been no problem today. I aslo know that the Scala EX module is limited to
>only play from disk (Disk IO module) and not memory. I think actually Studio
>16's own Disk IO module is the only program I have seen capable of doing
>that (memory<->dsp buffering). :-/

>Therefor we need one person that knows the v3 system. Mr Ben Fuller, do you
>read this ? Are you interrested and do you have time to help us on this one?

>What do you guys think of paying for the capability (f.ex. an AHI driver) ?

Kenny, I am totally convinced that the scope of the project is so huge, at
least the way I envision it, that it would be negligent NOT to pay for it.
I want the real stuff. I want the developer to feel compensated enough to
continue to grow a killer-mondo-monster-shredder. The best the hardware is
capable of delivering...

--

   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:03:41 -0800
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From: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
To: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Forward Into The Past
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 08:03:00
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On 20-Jan-98, Kenny Nilsen wrote:

>What do you guys think of paying for the capability (f.ex. an AHI driver) ?


Of course...I'm in all the way!







--
-------------------------------------------------------

Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 03:12:18 +0500
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From: Brian Fields <[e-mail]>
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On 21-Jan-98, Kenny Nilsen wrote:

>What do you guys think of paying for the capability (f.ex. an AHI driver) ?


>- Kenny

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I would pay also.

Brian

[e-mail]


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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: [S16] Pay the Piper, Dance into the Future
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 17:12:00
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greenboy wrote:

>No. I would talk to dissidents. But I believe most programs that depend on

You're right. If not someone else has plans to do so I'll put it on my TODO
list. FYI: I just contacted Sound FX author as well. He already support
Studio 16 samples, but it's more detailed stuff like sampleclip support etc.

>I want the real stuff. I want the developer to feel compensated enough to
>continue to grow a killer-mondo-monster-shredder. The best the hardware is
>capable of delivering...

Agreed. I think we can see many interresting projects if we get this option.


- Kenny

From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:19:45 -0600
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From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: Doobie's
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 15:19:00
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This is a little off topic, but does anyone know if John McFee from the Doobies actually used Studio16, or was that just expensive advertising? (just for curiosities sake)

Gord Clink

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From [e-mail] Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:32:39 -0600
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On 21-Jan-98, Gord Clink wrote:
>This is a little off topic, but does anyone know if John McFee from the
>Doobies actually used Studio16, or was that just expensive advertising? (just
>for curiosities sake)

Don't really know, but I assume he in fact did and perhaps still does! Why,
wouldn't he have used an AD516. It was the absolute best thing available,
and *nothing* could touch it!

>Gord Clink

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:33:45 -0500
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From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
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Subject: ARexx script for Sample Wrench???
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 16:33:00
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greenboy spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:

> >>which is to audition samples that are being edited by WRENCH /without/
> >>/having to save out/--and it works correctly.

> >Please, send me this ARexx script.  I'm very curious as to how it uses
> >ARexx to playback sounds in memory with an AD516.  This could be a very
> >important thing to see.  (Or I could be half asleep and missing

> This is a commercial program. Perhaps you should check it out as a demo or
> buy it. Especially if you have stated opinions about it without ever


I'm talking about the arexx script not Sample Wrench itself.  The ARexx
script is likely to be text, tell us what it says and maybe we can do
something with it.  If they wanted to keep the technique a secret it
wouldn't have been done as an arexx script... if it had to be arexx,
they'd have just implemented it internally so nobody would know how it
was done.

I've seen the demo of Sample Wrench and the purchased version, neither
version had an arexx script for the AD516... this must have been added
later.

--

dhomas.

**********************************************************************
*                                                                    *
 *    young monkey studios     EMail:  [e-mail]        *
 *      ----------------         WWW:  http://www.youngmonkey.ca/   *
  *       dhomas trenn                                             *
  *                            Snail:  797 Mitchell Street         *
 *                                     Fredericton, NB              *
 *   Phone:  [phone]            CANADA    E3B 3S8            *
*                                                                    *
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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:19:48 -0000
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From: Don Cox <[e-mail]>
To: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Forward Into The Past
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 16:19:00
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>On 20-Jan-98, Kenny Nilsen wrote:

>>What do you guys think of paying for the capability (f.ex. an AHI driver) ?

Definitely worth paying for.
--
Don Cox
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:45:46 -0600
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From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
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Well, my "SMPTE Too Slow or Too Fast" error has reappeared, so I guess I'll have to try Serge's "Rock Solid Generator" idea after-all..... I'll let everyone know how I make out so we can put this problem to rest.....

Gord Clink

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From [e-mail] 21 Jan 98 17:12:09 +0100
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X-ReplyTo-No: 1258 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1269 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Pay the Piper, Dance into the Future
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 17:12:00
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greenboy wrote:

>No. I would talk to dissidents. But I believe most programs that depend on

You're right. If not someone else has plans to do so I'll put it on my TODO
list. FYI: I just contacted Sound FX author as well. He already support
Studio 16 samples, but it's more detailed stuff like sampleclip support etc.

>I want the real stuff. I want the developer to feel compensated enough to
>continue to grow a killer-mondo-monster-shredder. The best the hardware is
>capable of delivering...

Agreed. I think we can see many interresting projects if we get this option.


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:03:31 -0600
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1270 (database)
From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: Estimated No.
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 18:03:00
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I wonder what the Studio16 user base is!  Does anyone have an estimate? If we knew how may boards were sold, this would help justify (or not-justify), additional work on Studio16 based on payment for results. Maybe this mailing list could be advertised on Amiga Web Directory or something! What does everyone else think?

Gord Clink

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:33:53 +0500
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X-Message-No: 1271 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Fiends <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] How Many to Screw in a Light Bulb?
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 06:33:01
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> = Gord Clink's words on 21-Jan-98:
>I wonder what the Studio16 user base is! Does anyone have an estimate? If
>we knew how may boards were sold, this would help justify (or not
>justify), additional work on Studio16 based on payment for results. Maybe
>this mailing list could be advertised on Amiga Web Directory or something!
>What does everyone else think?

--

I don't care which celebrities have used or not used Studio16, and unless
the number is forthcoming from a former Sunrize employee (doubtful)--I
don't care how many people report that they have the AD516. As a dealer
before The Apocolypse, I got the impression that Sunrize was very well
installed, and quite a few in the hands of working professionals.

But I am sure the majority of them are now using other tools on other
platforms. So if you need a head count for justification, I would say:
make up a high number if your *heart* is in this; make up a low number if
this is a venture for beancounters.

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:13:52 -0600
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X-Message-No: 1272 (database)
From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [S16] How Many to Screw in a Light Bulb?
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 20:13:01
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Greenboy wrote:

But I am sure the majority of them are now using other tools on other
platforms. So if you need a head count for justification, I would say:
make up a high number if your *heart* is in this; make up a low number if
this is a venture for beancounters.

--
I don't think you are being realistic Greenboy.  I am very serious about this, and if you were too, you would realize that money talks. If you really truly want some action, then do a little research and find reasons to make the people who don't care what happens to Studio16 to care instead!  I'm talking about people like Ben Fuller, and other's from the origional Sunrize team.  I'm a 100% Amiga all the way, and have been for 11 years! But one thing I noticed, is the majority of Amiga users don't want to pay for software, and that's why companies like Sunrize constantly abandon the platform. Not everyone in the world is in love with the Amiga like most of us, but that doesn't mean we can't benifit from some excellent programmers that actually want to get paid for their work.

The bottom line is, I am only trying to come up with some idea's that will let us get what we want, and that is... continued support and development of the Studio16 non-linear editing system!

Gord Clink

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From [e-mail]  Tue Jan 20 05:35:07 1998
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X-Message-No: 1273 (database)
From: Brrr <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SMPTE Generator Accuracy
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 05:54:00
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In a message dated 1/19/98 3:06:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< This is a very common problem.  Through many hours, days, and weeks of
 frustrating trouble shooting with my system, I've come to the conclusion that
 studio16 is not able to handle the wow and flutter that is present in all
tape
 decks. >>

I have also had this same problem while using a separate Midiman, "Time
Window" SMPTE TC generator (recorded on a VCR's AFM audio track (no W & F)).
When I replaced it with a generator having better accuracy (In this case, a
Denecke "Sync Box" generator), the problem disappeared.
Moral being:  Not all SMPTE Time-Code generators are created equal.

Burr Huntington
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From [e-mail]  Wed Jan 21 18:40:43 1998
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-ReplyTo-No: 1252 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1274 (database)
From: Norman Austin <[e-mail]>
To: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Forward Into The Past
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 07:05:00
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>What do you guys think of paying for the capability (f.ex. an AHI driver) ?

Kenny,

     I'd pay.



Norman Austin    [e-mail]

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From [e-mail]  Tue Jan 20 10:39:31 1998
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1275 (database)
From: John Rice <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SMPTEout -Reply
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 11:38:00
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Lots of good info there Serge! ;-)  I've yet to try to sync up my Tascam 38 to my
Amiga / Sunrize / BP setup yet ( I've been TO !@#$@$$% busy! ) but you advice will
come in handy.

One thing Gord and others ( me too ) might benefit from is a CD that has SMPTE on it.
I think Prosonus'  test disk CD has 30 minutes of SMPTE time code on it and there may
be others.  I don't have one but a few years ago it was about $70 I think.  Probably
less than a hardware device!?


Good luck all, I've been enjoying lurking in the email! ;-)


    [e-mail]
        .......I play drums.



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From [e-mail]  Wed Jan 21 19:26:28 1998
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-ReplyTo-No: 1257 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1276 (database)
From: Bohus Blahut <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Fiends <[e-mail]>
Subject: paying the AHI piper
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 20:01:01
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  I am also part of the throng that would pay money for an AHI driver, or
any significant modern tool for Studio 16, or AMiga audio in gerneral.
Despite recent audio improvements announced by the DraCo people, I
forsee depending on Studio 16's flexibility for a long time yet!

Bohus Blahut (BOH-hoosh BLAH-hoot)                           [e-mail]
Modern Filmmaker                                 vox/fax:     [phone]

director- The Vantage Point

        "Imitation is the sincerest form of copyright infringement"
                                                                     -BB

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X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-ReplyTo-No: 1272 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1277 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [S16] How Many to Screw in a Light Bulb?
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 20:51:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Gord Clink wrote:

>Greenboy wrote:
>the people who don't care what happens to Studio16 to care instead!  I'm
>talking about people like Ben Fuller, and other's from the origional Sunrize
>team.  I'm a 100% Amiga all the way, and have been for 11 years! But one

Actually, Ben Fuller is on this list - therefor I have tried to get his view
on the situation and if he see any hope to achieve seomthing.
Unfortunaltely, at the very same time I have got some bounces from his ISP
due to a relay problem, but it seem to be fixed now.

>The bottom line is, I am only trying to come up with some idea's that will
>let us get what we want, and that is... continued support and development of

Ideas are good! Let 'em coming :-)

If anyone carry ideas let us hear about them!


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 21 Jan 98 20:51:26 +0100
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-ReplyTo-No: 1272 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1278 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [S16] How Many to Screw in a Light Bulb?
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 20:51:00
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Gord Clink wrote:

>Greenboy wrote:
>the people who don't care what happens to Studio16 to care instead!  I'm
>talking about people like Ben Fuller, and other's from the origional Sunrize
>team.  I'm a 100% Amiga all the way, and have been for 11 years! But one

Actually, Ben Fuller is on this list - therefor I have tried to get his view
on the situation and if he see any hope to achieve seomthing.
Unfortunaltely, at the very same time I have got some bounces from his ISP
due to a relay problem, but it seem to be fixed now.

>The bottom line is, I am only trying to come up with some idea's that will
>let us get what we want, and that is... continued support and development of

Ideas are good! Let 'em coming :-)

If anyone carry ideas let us hear about them!


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:05:31 +0500
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1279 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Fiends <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Thats Not Mine To Give
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 10:05:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Reply to young monkey (21-Jan):

The ARexx script from dissidents' SampleWrench is not mine to give. I
would have thought that someone in the biz would have a firmer grasp of
intellectual property-rights. If your reasoning that just because it isn't
binary or hex, it's up for grabs...well, let's all plunder your website
for anything that isn't bolted down...

I have said it repeatedly: contact dissidents; they are nice people and
I'm sure they will respond. (I didn't get to be an older monkey by
publicly posting other people's code without permission.) (Yes, it is
still code...)

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:55:14 +0500
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1280 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Fiends <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Ra, Ra! Team Lets Go!
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 10:55:00
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> = Gord Clink's words on 22-Jan-98:

>I don't think you are being realistic Greenboy. I am very serious about
>this, and if you were too, you would realize that money talks. If you
>really truly want some action, then do a little research and find reasons
>to make the people who don't care what happens to Studio16 to care
>instead! I'm talking about people like Ben Fuller, and other's from the
>origional Sunrize team.  I'm a 100% Amiga all the way, and have been for
>11 years! But one thing I noticed, is the majority of Amiga users don't
>want to p ay for software, and that's why companies like Sunrize
>constantly abandon the platform. Not everyone in the world is in love with
>the Amiga like most of us, but that doesn't mean we can't benifit from
>some excellent programmers that actually want to get paid for their work.

>The bottom line is, I am only trying to come up with some idea's that will
>let us get what we want, and that is... continued support and development
>of the Studio16 non-linear editing system!

--

If you have read any of my other postings in this list (even in the past
day or two) you would realize that you have pretty much repeated what I
have been saying. So to quote myself from just a bit earlier:

...I am totally convinced that the scope of the project is so huge, at
least the way I envision it, that it would be negligent NOT to pay for it.
I want the real stuff. I want the developer to feel compensated enough to
continue to grow a killer-mondo-monster-shredder. The best the hardware is
capable of delivering...

But head-counts are not going to make people care. Producing a sensation
is what makes people care.

So get beyond the I-CARE-MORE-THAN-YOU retoric and examine what probably
needs to take place. If people have stated a commitment to do certain
projects, they have either already examined what their needs are, or are
doing it because /they/ think it important. So for them the research has
hopefully already been done. If they now decide not to follow through--
until "additional research" is done, they probably are not committed
enough anyway.

Decision by committee only muddies the water of commitment. Many of us have
already demonstrated our stance many times over. So lets get on with it!

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:34:18 -0600
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From: Rich Beachler <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AHI, Wrench, the works...
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 22:34:00
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Hello all,

1. The original person who started a "would you pay for AHI support?" thread
   in comp.sys.amiga.audio was Troy Silvey ([e-mail]). He gathered
   names of AD516 users, like myself, who were willing to pay for AHI. I'm
   still very willing to pay for it. Troy had been corresponding with a former
   Sunrize team member who claimed he would try to work on an AHI interface if
   he could find the time. Troy asked the "who would pay" question on his own
   to try and motivate the former Sunrize guy. That was last June and nothing
   seems to have happened yet. I wonder if Troy knows about this mailing list.

2. I owned Dissidents Sample Wrench (v1.8 I think) but had some difficulty
   with Dissidents and ended up returning it. At that time, It didn't support
   Studio16 file format completely. It could read a Studio16 file as a "raw"
   file, but couldn't write one that Studio16 liked. It suggested using AIFF
   files as the transfer format BUT the Studio16 3.01 AIFF writer has a bug
   and the AIFF files from Studio16 were rejected by Sample Wrench as
   "corrupt AIFF" files. The "Studio16 support" Wrench had at that time was
   the ability to open a Sample Wrench window on the Studio16 screen (like
   Bars and Pipes). You still had to play the file from Studio16 but could
   edit and save it from Wrench without changing screens. NO editing in ram
   and listening in Studio16 without saving it to RAM:. Not quite the same.
   I do know that Sample Wrench now has real Studio16 file format support,
   but I doubt they have the ability to play on an AD516 without some part
   of Studio16 being active. I would love to find out I'm mistaken.

3. I, too hope for new support for my AD516 and this group is the best
   chance I have. I'll provide any monitary support a developer feels is
   necessary to take us further. I also hope that we can remain friendly
   with one another. If anyone leaves this group because they feel they
   are unappreciated or don't like another's attitude or opinions, we ALL
   lose.

4. I set up another musician I work with an Amiga and leant him one of
   my AD516s and Studio16. He used it happily for about a year but eventually
   decided to get a Mac and Pro Tools (he got the Mac for his graphics
   business..Pro Tools was secondary). He called Sweetwater Sound to buy
   the Pro Tools hardware and talked to their "Pro Tools expert". When he
   mentioned that he already had a recording system, the "expert" asked
   what he was using. When my friend replied "an Amiga with Studio16", the
   Sweetwater guy responded "Oh, those were the best!".

We were the best and can still be among the best if we prove we can support
those who are willing to develop new software (and if we can just get those
who know how to talk to the cards to share a little info...)

Sorry this was so long....
so long :)



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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Rich Beachler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AHI, Wrench, the works...
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 00:27:00
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Rich Beachler wrote:

>   in comp.sys.amiga.audio was Troy Silvey ([e-mail]). He gathered
>   question on his own to try and motivate the former Sunrize guy. That was
>   last June and nothing seems to have happened yet. I wonder if Troy knows

He had talked to Ben Fuller (who is monitoring the list) and I think he had
got an reply that if Mr. Fuller had time he would look into it. I haven't
heard any thing later.

>   about this mailing list.

I am not sure (I didn't find the address while I did a quick search right
now), but he's very welcome to the list! I was originally against paying
for the AHI driver at the time, but I realise that there is probably no
other way (and I have got more understanding for it now). Then again, I did
not ask for my own convinient on the list, I did have Mr Fuller in mind as
well.

>   I doubt they have the ability to play on an AD516 without some part of
>   Studio16 being active. I would love to find out I'm mistaken.

I'm affraid you're right. I think Sunrize only licensed docs on the library.

>   with one another. If anyone leaves this group because they feel they
>   are unappreciated or don't like another's attitude or opinions, we ALL
>   lose.

Fully agreed. I hope we can stick to case, not person. Moderating is an
option though, but I hope it won't be necessary.

>   he was using. When my friend replied "an Amiga with Studio16", the
>   Sweetwater guy responded "Oh, those were the best!".

:)


- Kenny

From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:29:42 -0000
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From: Don Cox <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [S16] How Many to Screw in a Light Bulb?
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On 21-Jan-98, Gord Clink wrote:

>I'm a 100% Amiga all the way, and have been for 11 years! But one thing I
>noticed, is the majority of Amiga users don't want to p
>ay for software, and that's why companies like Sunrize constantly abandon the
>platform.

I think this is not so much an Amiga thing as a small-user thing. Big
companies buy software, individuals and sole traders can't or don't want to
pay hundreds of dollars. PC software on gold disks is everywhere, and
supposedly honest citizens think nothing of using it.

--
Don Cox
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:47:57 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
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Subject: RE: [S16] How Many to Screw in a Light Bulb?
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 12:47:01
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> = Don Cox's words on 22-Jan-98:

>On 21-Jan-98, Gord Clink wrote:
>>noticed, is the majority of Amiga users don't want to pay for software,
>>and that's why companies like Sunrize constantly abandon the platform.

>I think this is not so much an Amiga thing as a small-user thing. Big
>companies buy software, individuals and sole traders can't or don't want
>to pay hundreds of dollars. PC software on gold disks is everywhere, and
>supposedly honest citizens think nothing of using it.

When I sold Amigas I occasionally ran into real pirate-types. They never
seemed to be too successful at what they did because they were "small"
thinkers, cheap and unable to see the big picture. The people who bought
what they used tended to be people who went places, were more focused,
learned and studied the tools of their art, and benefited from it. They
valued having manuals, support, and self-respect.

Professionals.

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:12:28 +0500
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> = Rich Beachler's words on 22-Jan-98:

>The original person who started a "would you pay for AHI support?" thread
>in comp.sys.amiga.audio was Troy Silvey ([e-mail]). Troy had
>been corresponding with a former Sunrize team member who claimed he would
>try to work on an AHI interface if he could find the time. Troy asked the
>"who would pay" question on his own to try and motivate the former Sunrize
>guy. That was last June and nothing seems to have happened yet.

Several here on the list were former beta-testers, as was I, and can
probably attest to the apparent unmotivatability (and disinterest) our
reports were sometimes met with. I wonder if they realized they were not
the only ones suffering from Commodore's "suckiness".

>I wonder if Troy knows about this mailing list.

Lets email him!

>The "Studio16 support" Wrench had at that time was the ability to open a
>Sample Wrench window on the Studio16 screen. NO editing in ram and
>listening in Studio16 without saving it to RAM:.

Boy, that's got to be a long way back. I can hardly remember that version...

>I doubt they have the ability to play on an AD516 without some part of
>Studio16 being active. I would love to find out I'm mistaken.

True. S16's arexx port has to be available. I never saw this as a problem:
I would pull the sample into Wrench that I wanted, tweak, audition, etc.
`til it was ready to save--then go back to working in S16.

>I, too hope for new support for my AD516 and this group is the best chance
>I have. I'll provide any monitary support a developer feels is necessary
>to take us further.

This is not too far-fetched. My heart especially started pumping when I saw
Maricizio's AudioLab announcement!

>mentioned that he already had a recording system, the "expert" asked what
>he was using. When my friend replied "an Amiga with Studio16", the
>Sweetwater guy responded "Oh, those were the best!".

When I was selling Sunrize products, BYTE Magazine (*great* cross-platform
mag) compared S16 to twelve or more other similar products and gave it the
same high praise. <but that was then...>

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:01:12 -0500
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From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
To: Rich Beachler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Studio 16 - the dinosaur with no bones.
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 03:01:00
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Rich spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:

> 4. I set up another musician I work with an Amiga and leant him one of
>    my AD516s and Studio16. He used it happily for about a year but
eventually
>    decided to get a Mac and Pro Tools (he got the Mac for his graphics

If anyone can figure out how to directly access the 516 (and 1012)
and Maurizio Ciccione's AMIGA program ProStation will work with it...
we'll all have access to a Pro Tools like environment (or so Maurizio
says).

Then it's goodbye Studio16... ???

What everyone has to remember... no matter how much Kenny or I or
anyone else does to 'enhance' Studio16, it's all still going to be a
hack.  There's only so much we can do and then were stuck.

ARexx scripts and such aren't going to do it.  Even an AHI driver isn't
going to be enough to make a REAL Studio16-like environment.  Sure,
it'll be nice to have... but I'll be surprised if anyone can make an
environment like Studio-16 or ProTools with AHI... Has anyone done it
yet for any other supported card???

The next step beyond this is disassembling Studio16 and creating
patches for the executable.  That's probably not going to happen, not
even Kenny will do that - huh Kenny?

It's going to come to the point where it's just going to be easier to
code a whole new application - and scrap Studio16... ala ProStation, or
whatever.  But, without the technical docs for the cards, that can
never happen.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying this revival project is a waste of
time - it's not.  I'm just hoping that people aren't expecting the
impossible here.  And I'm pretty sure some people are.

>    what he was using. When my friend replied "an Amiga with Studio16", the
>    Sweetwater guy responded "Oh, those were the best!".

WERE is the key word there!
----

Unfortunately, now it might be the best on the Amiga, but that's about
it.

--

dhomas.

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*                                                                    *
 *    young monkey studios     EMail:  [e-mail]        *
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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:16:28 -0500
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From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Wrench?
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 03:16:00
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greenboy spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:

> True. S16's arexx port has to be available. I never saw this as a problem:
> I would pull the sample into Wrench that I wanted, tweak, audition, etc.
> `til it was ready to save--then go back to working in S16.

That's just loading (pull) and saving... Wrench doesn't need an S16
Arexx port to do that.  SoundFX does this too.

What we (developers) would like to know is what the (alleged) secret
ARexx command is that Studio16 responds to, to play sounds in memory.
I've got a strong suspicion that Wrench still saves the sound and then
uses the Studio16 arexx commands: S16Open to load the sound and
S16Trigger to play it . This stuff is already documented and nothing
new here.

--

dhomas.

**********************************************************************
*                                                                    *
 *    young monkey studios     EMail:  [e-mail]        *
 *      ----------------         WWW:  http://www.youngmonkey.ca/   *
  *       dhomas trenn                                             *
  *                            Snail:  797 Mitchell Street         *
 *                                     Fredericton, NB              *
 *   Phone:  [phone]            CANADA    E3B 3S8            *
*                                                                    *
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Studio 16 - the dinosaur with no bones.
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 14:02:00
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dhomas trenn wrote:

>Rich spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:
>The next step beyond this is disassembling Studio16 and creating
>patches for the executable.  That's probably not going to happen, not
>even Kenny will do that - huh Kenny?

Dhomas
I'm not going to disassembling anything and haven't. Though, international
agreements (tractats) allow you to do so as long as you don't use any of the
code (or change it) and just watch to learn, but it's mostly in C (I assume
from examples I have seen and the the way studio.lib 2 api was built (stack
parameters, stubs etc.)) and reading disassembled C code will take the rest
of the year (and probably next year as well) anyway.. :^)

I hope we can get this in another more convinient way.

>time - it's not.  I'm just hoping that people aren't expecting the
>impossible here.  And I'm pretty sure some people are.

The goal is to achieve it even if I or someone else has to learn DSP
programming to do it. But you're right, we can't expect too much. Though,
having the fileformats analyses we can expand support for sample processing,
creating and processing cuelists etc. which will help a lot IMHO. That was
also the reason why I started the project. As you mentioned earlier we might
have to use hacks, but hopefully we can avoid it.


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 22 Jan 98 00:27:49 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Rich Beachler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AHI, Wrench, the works...
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 00:27:00
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Rich Beachler wrote:

>   in comp.sys.amiga.audio was Troy Silvey ([e-mail]). He gathered
>   question on his own to try and motivate the former Sunrize guy. That was
>   last June and nothing seems to have happened yet. I wonder if Troy knows

He had talked to Ben Fuller (who is monitoring the list) and I think he had
got an reply that if Mr. Fuller had time he would look into it. I haven't
heard any thing later.

>   about this mailing list.

I am not sure (I didn't find the address while I did a quick search right
now), but he's very welcome to the list! I was originally against paying
for the AHI driver at the time, but I realise that there is probably no
other way (and I have got more understanding for it now). Then again, I did
not ask for my own convinient on the list, I did have Mr Fuller in mind as
well.

>   I doubt they have the ability to play on an AD516 without some part of
>   Studio16 being active. I would love to find out I'm mistaken.

I'm affraid you're right. I think Sunrize only licensed docs on the library.

>   with one another. If anyone leaves this group because they feel they
>   are unappreciated or don't like another's attitude or opinions, we ALL
>   lose.

Fully agreed. I hope we can stick to case, not person. Moderating is an
option though, but I hope it won't be necessary.

>   he was using. When my friend replied "an Amiga with Studio16", the
>   Sweetwater guy responded "Oh, those were the best!".

:)


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] 22 Jan 98 14:02:38 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Studio 16 - the dinosaur with no bones.
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 14:02:00
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dhomas trenn wrote:

>Rich spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:
>The next step beyond this is disassembling Studio16 and creating
>patches for the executable.  That's probably not going to happen, not
>even Kenny will do that - huh Kenny?

Dhomas
I'm not going to disassembling anything and haven't. Though, international
agreements (tractats) allow you to do so as long as you don't use any of the
code (or change it) and just watch to learn, but it's mostly in C (I assume
from examples I have seen and the the way studio.lib 2 api was built (stack
parameters, stubs etc.)) and reading disassembled C code will take the rest
of the year (and probably next year as well) anyway.. :^)

I hope we can get this in another more convinient way.

>time - it's not.  I'm just hoping that people aren't expecting the
>impossible here.  And I'm pretty sure some people are.

The goal is to achieve it even if I or someone else has to learn DSP
programming to do it. But you're right, we can't expect too much. Though,
having the fileformats analyses we can expand support for sample processing,
creating and processing cuelists etc. which will help a lot IMHO. That was
also the reason why I started the project. As you mentioned earlier we might
have to use hacks, but hopefully we can avoid it.


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:21:01 -0000
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X-Message-No: 1293 (database)
From: Don Cox <[e-mail]>
To: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Wrench?
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 13:21:00
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On 22-Jan-98, dhomas trenn wrote:

>What we (developers) would like to know is what the (alleged) secret
>ARexx command is that Studio16 responds to, to play sounds in memory.
ARexx commands are normally all listed as text in the program code, and are
easily extracted with Transwrite. The commands in the Studio16REXX file are:

s16openwithautoclose
s16openrecordoutput
s16openrecord
s16open
s16trigger
s16close
s16tofront
s16toback
s16exit
s16version
s16querysmptetime
s16chanvol
s16notify
s16rate
s16gain
s16pan
s16filter
s16playstereo
s16play
s16waittimecode
s16waitgpi
s16stopallplayback
s16smptestop
s16smpteset
s16smptestart

I don't have a manual any more (somebody stole it), but I presume these are
all known? There can't be any more; if one of the other modules had its own
port, it would need a different address.
--
Don Cox
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:31:13 -0600
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X-Message-No: 1294 (database)
From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bars&Pipes
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 15:31:00
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I think this is a relevent topic, since I'm using Bars & Pipes with Studio16....

Does anyone know where I can get a manual, and is there anymore word on Microsoft selling the package back to Amiga Inc.?

Gord Clink

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:52:30 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Device Independent And Proud Of It
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 18:52:00
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> = dhomas trenn's words on 22-Jan-98:
>Unfortunately, now it might be the best on the Amiga, but that's about it.

...And I thought I was morbid. Hey, buck up, buddy!

>ARexx scripts and such aren't going to do it.  Even an AHI driver isn't
>going to be enough to make a REAL Studio16-like environment.  Sure,
>it'll be nice to have... but I'll be surprised if anyone can make an
>environment like Studio-16 or ProTools with AHI... Has anyone done it
>yet for any other supported card???

Perhaps this has never needed to be considered. Now it does. There is no
reason such a tool can't be fast, powerful, and accurate. Time is the
biggest constraint.

>It's going to come to the point where it's just going to be easier to
>code a whole new application - and scrap Studio16... ala ProStation, or
>whatever.  But, without the technical docs for the cards, that can
>never happen.

What's wrong with that? Realistically, that is what needs to be done in
order to go forward. I figure that we just need to get over the hump of
exclusive approaches. This took place on other platforms for display,
sound, and video--for the most part, years ago.

Once we too have device-independent drivers, that makes it possible to
design software that has a potential for larger sales. Any card on the
Amiga should be able to use the same software. If it has some modularity,
then special features of different cards can be addressed without making
the package low-powered or -featured to satisfy the lacks of less-adept
cards. Important. And can you say...PLUG INS?

>Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying this revival project is a waste of
>time - it's not.  I'm just hoping that people aren't expecting the
>impossible here.  And I'm pretty sure some people are.

Perhaps you feel out of your league. But this project as I envision it is
not /impossible/. It will take some special luck, some teamwork, a
willingness to reach out, maybe some horse-trading, a little from here, a
little from there. Or maybe all it will take is a card-driver, and the
rest of the work is already being done.

Then we can beta-test and get on lists and harangue and argue and discuss
until the Amiga can stand with the big boys, at least in some markets. But
Studio16 isn't so bad that people aren't able to get by in the meanwhile,
is it?

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:49:20 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Wrenching It Out. Again... <sigh>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 18:49:00
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greenboy earlier: True. S16's arexx port has to be available. I never saw
this as a problem: I would pull the sample into Wrench that I wanted,
tweak, audition, etc. `til it was ready to save--then go back to working
in S16.

> = dhomas trenn's words on 22-Jan-98:
>That's just loading (pull) and saving... Wrench doesn't need an S16
>Arexx port to do that. SoundFX does this too.

No. You are still missing the point. Though Load and Save are involved,
being able to use the card to AUDITION your edits/effects is very useful.
That is all the arexx is for. Just because it is not what you want it to
be does not negate its usefulness or circa '90-whatever coolness.

>What we (developers) would like to know is what the (alleged) secret
>ARexx command is that Studio16 responds to, to play sounds in memory.
>I've got a strong suspicion that Wrench still saves the sound and then
>uses the Studio16 arexx commands: S16Open to load the sound and
>S16Trigger to play it . This stuff is already documented and nothing
>new here.

There are no big secrets here. Whose allegations? Does it have to be new
to be valid? Are my observations being taken out of context because they
are not your rosetta stone? Your obsession unbalances you.

When we first got going on this thread I was trying to point out that in
the past, other people have done significant work in the area of sample-
editing and effects, and have had experience with the AD516/Studio16, and
perhaps have documentation people here do not possess.

Those people are potential allies, and useful resources. I still believe
that the more folks who contact them and express interest, the more our
potential becomes actuality. Ever hear the term "reach out"?

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-ReplyTo-No: 1294 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1297 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bars&Pipes
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 20:11:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Gord Clink wrote:

>I think this is a relevent topic, since I'm using Bars & Pipes with
>Studio16....

There is a guy that works on a B&P help file - try this address:

        http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~alfw/amiga/BarsPipesIntro.html

>Microsoft selling the package back to Amiga Inc.?

Very doubtful..


- Kenny

From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:11:37 -0500
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From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: It's all a hoax... Area 51-6???
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 19:11:00
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greenboy spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:

> No. You are still missing the point. Though Load and Save are involved,
> being able to use the card to AUDITION your edits/effects is very useful.
> That is all the arexx is for. Just because it is not what you want it to

It's not what you said it was.  You said you had an ARexx script for
sample wrench that allowed it to play back sounds on the AD516 WITHOUT
having to LOAD AND SAVE sounds.  I wanted to know how this was
accomplished.  You refused to tell us how they did this, insisting that
Dissidents had the information to do what you said this was doing.

I was pretty sure that Dissidents didn't know anything that we didn't
already know... but you insisted it accomplished the task without
LOADing and SAVEing... now you say yes... it has to load and save.

Had you said this in the first place... instead of leading us all to
believe that it was possible, we'd have saved all this wasted time.

> When we first got going on this thread I was trying to point out that in
> the past, other people have done significant work in the area of sample-

I wouldn't consider loading and saving anything resembling significant
work in the area.

Kenny's contribution... now that's significant.

--

dhomas.

**********************************************************************
*                                                                    *
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  *       dhomas trenn                                             *
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*                                                                    *
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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:17:11 -0500
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From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Device Independent And Proud Of It
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 19:17:00
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greenboy spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:

> Perhaps you feel out of your league. But this project as I envision it is
> not /impossible/. It will take some special luck, some teamwork, a

And what it doesn't need is people leading other people, who are making
serious contributions, to believe something that isn't true.

> willingness to reach out, maybe some horse-trading, a little from here, a
> little from there. Or maybe all it will take is a card-driver, and the

A little from here... like someone being brave enough to say hey...
this ARexx script I have here has an ARexx command called
'S16-PlayFromRAM' - is that something useful?

But then it never existed so... that couldn't have happened anyway.

--

dhomas.

**********************************************************************
*                                                                    *
 *    young monkey studios     EMail:  [e-mail]        *
 *      ----------------         WWW:  http://www.youngmonkey.ca/   *
  *       dhomas trenn                                             *
  *                            Snail:  797 Mitchell Street         *
 *                                     Fredericton, NB              *
 *   Phone:  [phone]            CANADA    E3B 3S8            *
*                                                                    *
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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:10:01 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Golden Ears and Bikes
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 06:10:00
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> = Mike Masquith's words on 21-Jan-98:
>By the way, my ears are no more 'golden' than anyone elses. If the
>real professionals can hear and define the qualitative difference
>between 16 bit and 24 bit digital, that's reason enough for me to want
>have 24 bit.

Part of having "golden ears" is working in rooms that control frequency
dispersion, phasing, standing waves etc. Correct monitor placement counts
here too. The quality of the entire signal chain influences how "golden
ears are trained and maintained. If your equipment can't tell the
difference it is tough for your ears to learn (and it is a learning
experience).

One of the biggest steps for me to get closer to a "golden ear" ideal
concerns wiring. Without high quality interconnection of midi, data,
audio, video, and a.c. lines, you are going to limit your ability to hear
what is really in the audio signal, and what your near-fields and other
equipment are really doing. Ground loops and noise leakage from one type
of signal-carrying line to another are quality decimators.

Having higher quality shielding (someone was mentioning not having the
DAC/ADC circuitry within the computer, which is a "noisy" environment) is
important. Get braided/foil-wrapped cable where appropriate, not
spiral-wrap, /especially not/ Radio Shack.

I believe that balanced power is the only real solution to take care of
all grounding problems. (EqiTech, Furman, and others supply rack-mount
balanced power systems.) Balanced power may be viewed by some as
expensive, but the signal-to-noise ratio of the entire studio goes up more
dramatically than anything else can do.

Each piece of gear can now reach its potential in performance, and its
longevity is increased due to having no voltage floating around where it
shouldn't be. Balanced power is easier to use than every other
semi/non-effective way of dealing with ground-noise problems.

Anyway, probably anyone can build golden-ears. It just takes attention to
details, in listening, in maintainence, in equipment set-up and purchase,
and in attitude. And its like riding a bike...

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:36:23 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Tie a BlueRibbon 'Round the BigBlue PC...
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 06:36:00
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> = Gord Clink's words on 22-Jan-98:
>I think this is a relevent topic, since I'm using Bars & Pipes with
>Studio16....

>Does anyone know where I can get a manual, and is there anymore word on
>Microsoft selling the package back to Amiga Inc.?

Hey. Last time I heard a rumor, about three weeks ago, I checked every www
link I could find, searched for and used every email address for anyone
who ever worked at BlueRibbon, looked up all my old contacts as a former
dealer, etc--and NOTHING! That's some firewall they've got there.

So I would say, good luck with Microsloth ever doing anything that
great...

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:26:22 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] In Rodney King's Words...
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 07:26:00
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> = dhomas trenn's words on 22-Jan-98:

>It's not what you said it was.  You said you had an ARexx script for
>sample wrench that allowed it to play back sounds on the AD516 WITHOUT
>having to LOAD AND SAVE sounds.  I wanted to know how this was
>accomplished.  You refused to tell us how they did this, insisting that
>Dissidents had the information to do what you said this was doing.

I NEVER claimed anything of the sort. I did say that one could AUDITION
via the 516.

>I was pretty sure that Dissidents didn't know anything that we didn't
>already know... but you insisted it accomplished the task without
>LOADing and SAVEing... now you say yes... it has to load and save.

See above.

>Had you said this in the first place... instead of leading us all to
>believe that it was possible, we'd have saved all this wasted time.

See above AGAIN.

>> When we first got going on this thread I was trying to point out that in
>> the past, other people have done significant work in the area of sample-

>I wouldn't consider loading and saving anything resembling significant
>work in the area.

Well your mind is made up, isn't it?

>Kenny's contribution... now that's significant.

I agree that Kenny is doing a right-on thing. I have before. And Kenny
must be getting tired of seeing all this energy going sideways. Now can
you and I move on, so that we can be assets instead of liabilities?

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] 22 Jan 98 20:11:27 +0100
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X-ReplyTo-No: 1294 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1307 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bars&Pipes
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 20:11:00
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Gord Clink wrote:

>I think this is a relevent topic, since I'm using Bars & Pipes with
>Studio16....

There is a guy that works on a B&P help file - try this address:

        http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~alfw/amiga/BarsPipesIntro.html

>Microsoft selling the package back to Amiga Inc.?

Very doubtful..


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:12:48 -0500
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From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
To: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bars&Pipes
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 00:12:00
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Kenny spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:

> >Microsoft selling the package back to Amiga Inc.?

Amiga Inc... never owned B&P.

Anyway... in my last CU-Amiga SoundLab column (Feb98) I reported on a
site where you could download the program and other BlueRibbon stuff. I
believe the guy is also selling photocopied manuals... check it out at:

   http://www.in2net.com/bws/blue


--

dhomas.

**********************************************************************
*                                                                    *
 *    young monkey studios     EMail:  [e-mail]        *
 *      ----------------         WWW:  http://www.youngmonkey.ca/   *
  *       dhomas trenn                                             *
  *                            Snail:  797 Mitchell Street         *
 *                                     Fredericton, NB              *
 *   Phone:  [phone]            CANADA    E3B 3S8            *
*                                                                    *
**********************************************************************

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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:16:49 -0800
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X-ReplyTo-No: 1281 (There are no more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1309 (database)
From: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
To: Rich Beachler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AHI, Wrench, the works...
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 23:16:00
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On 21-Jan-98, Rich Beachler wrote:
>Hello all,

>1. The original person who started a "would you pay for AHI support?" thread
>   in comp.sys.amiga.audio was Troy Silvey ([e-mail]). He gathered
>   names of AD516 users, like myself, who were willing to pay for AHI. I'm
>   still very willing to pay for it. Troy had been corresponding with a
former
>   Sunrize team member who claimed he would try to work on an AHI interface
if
>   he could find the time. Troy asked the "who would pay" question on his own
>   to try and motivate the former Sunrize guy. That was last June and nothing
>   seems to have happened yet. I wonder if Troy knows about this mailing
list.


Funny that you mention this....as I just sent mail to Troy yesterday, asking
him to get on this list if he
wasn't already.






--
-------------------------------------------------------

Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:12:37 -0000
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X-Message-No: 1310 (database)
From: Don Cox <[e-mail]>
To: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Studio 16 - the dinosaur with no bones.
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 22:12:00
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On 22-Jan-98, dhomas trenn wrote:

>As for the AHI driver... it's sad to know that someone out there has
>all the info that would open a whole knew world for the AD516 cards,
>and doesn't seem to want to help.

>This guy has been saying for a year or more that he's considering doing
>a driver... but after awhile you just have to realize it just might
>never happen.
It is probably a matter of getting around to setting up the Amiga (it may have
been put away in a cupboard like the one at Black Belt), finding the disks,
remembering how to set up SAS c, etc etc after a 2 year break. Just a shortage
of round tuits.

--
Don Cox
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:29:04 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Cannibalized!
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 14:29:00
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> = Don Cox's words on 23-Jan-98:

>It is probably a matter of getting around to setting up the Amiga (it may
>have been put away in a cupboard like the one at Black Belt), finding the
>disks, remembering how to set up SAS c, etc etc after a 2 year break. Just
>a shortage of round tuits.

Yeah, I contacted Steve Worley, the former producer/software engineer of
Essence (an algorythmic texture/background builder sold in the Toaster
marketplace). Tried to get him to reintroduce the product, or at least
sell me a copy. His reply: had to cannibalize the Amiga for the floppy
drive...   <He is working on a mega-project called Gaffer currently>

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:55:14 -0500 (EST)
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X-Message-No: 1312 (database)
From: tdavis <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dissonance and Dinasaurs
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 02:55:00
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Gosh I'm happy I discovered this list a few days ago. Though my internet
face is a MAC , my Amiga holds a dear place under my fingers.
Its been a while since I  shared the passion Amiga, and you gents remind me
of the special  madness that Amigans have from the nonsensical punny
"Subject" lines to the billboards for signatures - it reminds me of old
times.

Anyway, from my WRENCH 3.1.5 ARexx directory:

* Mono AIFF save from a Wrench sound for Studio16 playback. */
/* The sound is saved to the temp directory T:, but could just as easily */
/* use a hard drive partion. */

options results
address wrench

/* set save format to AIFF */
format 0

/* save the sound in editor 1 */
savew 1 'T:TempSound'

/* call up Studio16 and have it play back the sound we just saved */
address command
'Studio16:utilities/studio16rexx no screen'
address command 'WaitForPort Studio16.1'
address 'Studio16.1'

S16Play 'T:TempSound'

S16Exit'

Not as fast as a direct call to the hardware but almost fast enough on a
stock 3000 and frankly I've always liked the idea of a scripting language
that allows a bozo like me to tie things together.
One of the things that seemed to contibute to Ami's elegance.

                               Happy to lurk here (smells like home)
                                                     Ted


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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:24:46 +0500
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X-Message-No: 1313 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Re: Some thoughts...
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 17:24:00
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Hey, Ben!

> = Ben Fuller's words on 23-Jan-98:
>at age 17 I was one of the first and quite probably the youngest
>Commercial Developer (# CC01039 -- I was there at the beginning,

I remember the first time I used Project D: that was some big deal back
then! Not a hard drive to be seen. Some of us were involved with Atari STs
(midi software), and Project D actually was more capable of copying the ST
disks than any thing we could find for the Atari! Sold quite a few Project
Ds too, /everyone/ back then needed one of those. I seem to remember your
name on some other disk utility even before that--Yo-ho, yo-ho, a Pirates'
Life for Me...?

>and I was there at the end (which, by the way, was in early 1994 when the
>engineering efforts relating to Amiga inside Commodore effectively
>came to a complete stop).  I was very depressed for some time...

Yeah, this pretty much crippled me too. All my money, dreams, and time had
been tied up there since '87. Really, before then. I bought every issue of
AmigaWorld since Andy Warhol! Everything I did, loved, and ate came from
the Amiga.

>Then, in late 1994 a funny thing happened... I was lucky enough to be part
>of the Chicago (aka Win95) beta program... Preemptive-multitasking, 32-bit
>addressing, open device architecture, device independent everything,
>decent development tools... It was like deja vu all over again... I
>discovered that (like it says on the Deathbed Vigil t-shirt) there is life
>after Commodore.

I like lots of the stuff on the PC, but the operating system, I find, is
painful to use. But some beautiful stuff for developers there! (making a
good living being only one of them!)

>There were a few developers that SunRize worked closely with and provided
>limited access to 3.x specific information. Getting the AmiLINK to provide
>SMPTE timecode to Studio16 using the enhanced SMPTE APIs was one instance.

So is this information itself available?

>Myth #3 -- The Amiga is still a viable commercial platform. This is simply
>not true. A viable platform for general purpose computing must be able to
>evolve -- both in hardware and software. The quality of Amiga software has
>degraded significantly since The End, and most (if not all) of those
>responsible for the best-of-breed applications on Amiga have left the
>arena. It will be extremely difficult if not impossible to return to the
>levels of quality neccessary to evolve the platform.

Well, I agree, and I don't agree. One of the instruments I play has not
really had anything major happen to it for about a century. But people
still pay to hear it. And you are not lost in the shuffle of a million
others when you play new music on it.

But ambitious projects tend not to be here anymore; standards are not set,
and innovation is tough, given the lack of new standards and direction.
There is a certain disfunctional ambience here at times.

>Ok, so what about doing an AHI driver or something...
>AHI as time permits, but I have still been unable to get the paula driver to
>work -- something that will have to happen before I decide to build a driver
>for the AD516.

This is probably what I believe my biggest hope is. To have a driver will
allow smaller Amiga-oriented houses to pehaps make decent money on multi-
card software that, if not state-of-art, will at least be nearer to what it
takes to be creative and survive. I suspect that many of us can't or won't
buy the latest 24bit ProTools, or make the struggle doing something similar
on the Windozzze platform for as long as we can avoid it  8)

>At one time I was one of the most Die Hard Fanatic Loyalist Developer On
>A Jihad To Bring The Whole World To Amiga --

So you can dig it: Here, we are all pretty good at getting major mileage
out of last year's model. We are creative...


--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:38:30 -0800
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From: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
To: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Thank You
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 05:38:00
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On 22-Jan-98, Ben Fuller wrote:
>First, an introduction:

>Hi there, I'm Ben Fuller, at one time I was a Senior Software Engineer for
>SunRize Industries



Wow!   Thanks Ben.

I appreciate your post.  It's difficult to operate
in a vacuum as was created by the complete silence
Sunrize left us in.

Your words were refreshing and sobering, going right
to the heart of whether or not each of us as individuals
made the right decision to hang in there with Amiga.

I would like to see the dialogue here, on AHI, get more
clear and to the point.  What would it really take in
man hours to program it?  Who would own it?  What would
it really take to entice someone such as your self to do
this?  What can individuals like myself do to help this
go forward?

I for one am not still using the Amiga because I think
it is going to become a commercialy viable platform
again.  I am frankly very comfortable with this computer
and am going to milk the last dollar out of my
investment until I feel I am losing money(productivity)
not moving on.

If the AHI driver is written I could conceivably get an
extra 6-12 months of longevity givin the current stasis
the Amiga is in.  My decisions are best made against how
I would handle the least optomistic forcast.

I do admittedly still dream at times though that this
list of sincere individuals is a micro-forshadowing of a
groundswell of energy that could lift the Amiga up from
it's ashes, via GATEWAY, back into the frontier of
computing.  A syncronicity of sorts.

My things is music and my love of it....  as long as
this can serve that dedication........


-=gary mula=-


-------------------------------------------------------

Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:46:14 -0800
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From: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
To: tdavis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dissonance and Dinasaurs
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 06:46:00
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On 22-Jan-98, tdavis wrote:


>Anyway, from my WRENCH 3.1.5 ARexx directory:

>* Mono AIFF save from a Wrench sound for Studio16 playback. */
>/* The sound is saved to the temp directory T:, but could just as easily */
>/* use a hard drive partion. */

>options results
>address wrench

>/* set save format to AIFF */
>format 0

>/* save the sound in editor 1 */
>savew 1 'T:TempSound'

>/* call up Studio16 and have it play back the sound we just saved */
>address command
>'Studio16:utilities/studio16rexx no screen'
>address command 'WaitForPort Studio16.1'
>address 'Studio16.1'

>S16Play 'T:TempSound'

>S16Exit'


I haven't cross checked this script with my documentation but I think this
is what everyone has been discussing.

I found something about this in the Wrench_new2.1 doc that gives a summary
of how it works.


*By using AREXX, you can use the SunRize hardware (eg, AD516) to play back
a sample loaded into a Wrench editor. This will always treat the sound as
a one-shot. The first use of this macro will be a little slow since
certain items needed to be loaded into the computer's memory. Subsequent
calls will be faster. The following macro is used to play the sound loaded
into editor one.*


So I think in essence everyone was right.  It's just that the script does
the saving and loading for you invisibly.  Obviously this is not the
answer we are looking for but I think it is a very creative patch.  Could
other programs benifit by using this?  I have been meaning to check out
AudioLab16 again, and now the talk of SoundFX has also got me curious.

I think it is time I call up dissidents, maybe tomorrow and see where they
are currently at with The Wrench.



Hey..thanks for the post tdavis
Don't wonder off to far!



-=gary=-



--
-------------------------------------------------------

Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:44:19 +0500
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X-Message-No: 1316 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Gather Under The Banner!
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 19:44:00
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I don't know if any of you have been following _Project Magic_ by Opera
Software. They have been polling users of "alternate" operating systems
like the Amiga to see which smaller platforms are worth writing their
browser for. With tools like the web, and email, well this approach is
more affordable than ever.

The cool twist--and I have seen a similar deal all over the net--is the
cute little icon with the URL link. Guys seem to climb all over themselves
to post some of these icons or banners at their sites. And the site and
the banner poster manage to collect quite a bit of response that if anyone
actually had to go out of their way to volunteer the same support,
wouldn't do it. So can anything like this benefit our movement?

/I would offer to design one, but someone here would either accuse me of/
/stealing it, or claim it didn't really exist. And after they saw it, it/
/wouldn't be enough, anyway./

So go to it, someone! I'll vote for you, and help get it spread around,
once eveyone has come up with a use and a game-plan.

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:13:51 +0500
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X-Message-No: 1317 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] THE Dinosaur has teeth.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 20:13:01
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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    Studio16 NOW    <nah, a little /too/ derivative>

    Studio16: The bad boy is B A C K!

    Studio16--Can you hear the SOUND?

    Ride the WAVE on STUDIO16    <well, ride the AIFF>

    STUDIO16: be there or be SQUARE-wave   <I think its bedtime now>

    STUDIO16 Consortium ... Yesterday's Tommorrow is Almost HERE . . .

You get the idea. Cruise the web a little. This thing could be pretty
useful.

--
   *greenboy*     RED|GREEN|BLUE MARS - Nebula & Hugo - Kim Stanley Robinson
  _ // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:59:26 -0600
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X-Message-No: 1318 (database)
From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: Changing Attitudes!!!
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 16:59:00
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I find it very disheartening, and at no-ones fault but Commodores, that we Amiga users were once very proud of our system because it was truly a superior system to anything else, including applications. Now we glow when we can just do the same things as other computers. This is very sad!! Ben is right in a way.... There is very few great software manufacturers left in the Amiga world. I still believe that the Amiga OS is superior to most other systems (Windoze!!), but that doesn't do us much good if there is no high quality software to run on it. I don't really know where I'm trying to go with this, but reading Ben's thoughts made me kind of sad....

Recently, I have send a few messages to some larger software firms like Borland, etc.  pleading them to support the Amiga. I don't know if this is wasted effort of what, but I guess it can't hurt.

Gord Clink

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From [e-mail]  Thu Jan 22 01:51:44 1998
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X-Message-No: 1319 (database)
From: Alfonso Curiel M. <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Forward Into The Past
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 02:53:00
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>What do you guys think of paying for the capability (f.ex. an AHI driver) ?
>- Kenny


Of Course I pay for it.

saludos...

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From [e-mail]  Thu Jan 22 04:25:08 1998
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X-Message-No: 1320 (database)
From: Mike Masquith <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Don't tread on me says Bart Simpson
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 18:37:00
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> Of course it isn't a rumor! And I guess your ears are more golden than all
> those guys that have been mastering since the days of vinyl. They insist
> in 20 and 24-bit storage. Maybe you have never noticed "noise-floor"
> effects before. Or zippering. Or seen how many people have looked for
> algorythms to dither sound during fades to and from the noise-floor. Not
> to mention signal-to-noise ratios.

I have to agree. (Not with the sarcasm, though! :)) I've read some
articles by people in the high end of the recording biz, and the
current top-of-the-line digital stuff at 24 bits is just becoming
satisfactory to them compared to their high-dollar analog equipment.
One guy in particular had some convincing technical arguments behind
his statements that digital should use even 32 bits. Some think it's
overkill, but these people run multi-million dollar pro studios, and
can really hear the difference. My point is that the 16 bit stuff for
the Amiga was great in its day, but things are moving fast. We need
some more advanced hardware to take over. I'm all for improving our
ability to use what we already have, but I would love to see someone
start building a 20 or 24 bit card with nothing but digital I/O on it.
 A friend of mine has a PC and bought a card called WaveCenter. It has
2 ADAT optical interfaces, and 1 pair (in/out) of S/PDIF. The card
will work with 16 or 24 bit audio. This is the kind of card that the
Amiga platform needs. Something looking towards the future (digital).
A big advantage is the A/D D/A converters are external to the card,
outside, away from all the noise and RFI inside the computer. The ADAT
has become hugely popular, and most decent DAT decks have S/PDIF, or
some digital I/O. With this kind of connection, the silence is
amazing. If you don't have an ADAT, these guys build an affordable
rack mount 8X8 20 bit ADAT compatible A/D D/A converter. I really
think (especially after seeing it first hand) that this is the way to
go for the future. It would be great if we could convince them to
build the same thing for the Amiga. If you want to see it, check out
www.frontierdesign.com.

By the way, my ears are no more 'golden' than anyone elses. If the
real professionals can hear and define the qualitative difference
between 16 bit and 24 bit digital, that's reason enough for me to want
have 24 bit.

--
-Mike Masquith, Barkin' Beaver Studios, VA, USA

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From [e-mail]  Thu Jan 22 04:25:08 1998
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X-Message-No: 1321 (database)
From: Mike Masquith <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Forward Into The Past
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 18:39:00
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> What do you guys think of paying for the capability (f.ex. an AHI driver) ?

Yes. It's the only way to encourage continued advancements.
--
-Mike Masquith, Barkin' Beaver Studios, VA, USA

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From [e-mail]  Thu Jan 22 04:25:11 1998
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X-ReplyTo-No: 1270 (There are no more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1322 (database)
From: Mike Masquith <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Estimated No.
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 17:48:01
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> I wonder what the Studio16 user base is!  Does anyone have an estimate? If we knew how may boards were sold, this would help justify (or not-justify), additional work on Studio16 based on payment for results. Maybe this mailing list could be advertised on Amiga Web Directory or something! What does everyone else think?
I agree. We need to know. Need to get those S16 users to stand up and
BE COUNTED! :))
--
-Mike Masquith, Barkin' Beaver Studios, VA, USA

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From [e-mail]  Thu Jan 22 18:16:40 1998
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X-Message-No: 1323 (database)
From: tony panaji <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Forward Into The Past
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 18:36:00
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Hi Brian

> On 21-Jan-98, Kenny Nilsen wrote:
>
> >What do you guys think of paying for the capability (f.ex. an AHI driver) ?
>
>
> >- Kenny
>
> >---
> >*** The *Studio* *16* mailing list - /see/ /header/ /for/ /more/ /info/
>
>
> I would pay also.
>
> Brian
>
> [e-mail]
>
>
> ---
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>

-- I'll pay it's gotta be worth it



 [e-mail] (Starlink Research)

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From [e-mail]  Fri Jan 23 01:35:35 1998
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From: Mike Masquith <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bars&Pipes
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 16:28:00
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> I think this is a relevent topic, since I'm using Bars & Pipes with Studio16....
>
> Does anyone know where I can get a manual, and is there anymore word on Microsoft selling the package back to Amiga Inc.?
The manual can be got from:
Shane Shariff
Box 48539
Vancouver, B.C.
Canada
V7X 1A3

Email him first at [e-mail]

I've heard no word on Microsofts' plans. One can only hope...
--
-Mike Masquith, Barkin' Beaver Studios, VA, USA

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From [e-mail]  Fri Jan 23 02:31:55 1998
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From: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 List <[e-mail]>
Subject: Some thoughts...
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 03:32:00
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First, an introduction:

Hi there, I'm Ben Fuller, at one time I was a Senior Software Engineer for
SunRize Industries -- makers of the AD516/Studio16 Digital Audio Workstation
software and hardware.  Among other things, I was responsible for the
automated mixer in v3.0, and the enhanced SMPTE handling in v3.01.  I also
did the Amiga side of the SoundSwitch software -- including getting it to
work seamlessly in the Video Toaster interface, and the killer Arexx API.  I
created the BigBlocks utility.  I also served as the Build Master at
SunRize.

At one time I was one of the most Die Hard Fanatic Loyalist Developer On A
Jihad To Bring The Whole World To Amiga -- at age 17 I was one of the first
and quite probably the youngest Commercial Developer (# CC01039 -- which for
those that don't know, means I was one of the commercial developers that
attended the 2nd Annual Amiga Developer's Conference in November 1986 --
which was when CATS started the commercial and registered developer
programs -- the numbering started at CC01000).  I was there at the
beginning, and I was there at the end (which, by the way, was in early 1994
when the engineering efforts relating to Amiga inside Commodore effectively
came to a complete stop).  I was very depressed for some time...Then, in
late 1994 a funny thing happened...  I was lucky enough to be part of the
Chicago (aka Win95) beta program...  Preemptive-multitasking, 32-bit
addressing, open device architecture, device independent everything, decent
development tools... It was like deja vu all over again...  I discovered
that (like it says on the Deathbed Vigil t-shirt) there is life after
Commodore.

Now, some thoughts:

I have been monitoring this list for a while, and have noticed a few
misconceptions that I will now attempt to clear up.

Myth #1 -- SunRize produced developer documentation for the Studio 16 3.x
release.
This is simply not true.  A developer kit for the 3.x release does not
exist.  There were a few developers that SunRize worked closely with and
provided limited access to 3.x specific information.  Getting the AmiLINK to
provide SMPTE timecode to Studio16 using the enhanced SMPTE APIs was one
instance.

Myth #2 -- There is some way to playback samples directly from RAM.
While this is technically true (the samples are buffered in RAM), an API for
that particular capability was never created *because it was not required
for the product*.  If you think about this for a minute, it will become
obvious -- Studio16 was designed from the ground up to efficiently move
sample data from the audio hardware on the card to the hard disk and back to
the card.  The only thing that matters is that the sample data gets to the
speakers at exactly the right time -- Just In Time delivery...  not Data
Warehousing.

Myth #3 -- The Amiga is still a viable commercial platform.
This is simply not true.  A viable platform for general purpose computing
must be able to evolve -- both in hardware and software.  A great deal of
capital is required to evolve both hardware and software.  The risk takers
have moved on to investments that will actually give them a return.  The
quality of Amiga software has degraded significantly since The End, and most
(if not all) of those responsible for the best-of-breed applications on
Amiga have left the arena.  It will be extremely difficult if not impossible
to return to the levels of quality neccessary to evolve the platform.

Ok, so what about doing an AHI driver or something...

Troy Silvey contacted me last year and asked if I could supply developer
information for the AD516 and if I would be interested in doing an AHI
driver for the card.  I did not respond for quite some time -- I'm sure he
probably thought that his questions had fallen upon deaf ears.  I did some
initial research on AHI and after a few unsuccessful attempts at getting the
paula driver to work (so that I could examine how the drivers are supposed
to function), I put those ideas back on the shelf.  When I responded to
Troy, in addition to clarifying the mythical existance of developer
documentation for the v3.x release, I indicated that I was extremely busy
with a project at work and could not devote any resources to an AHI driver
at that time, but that I would not rule out doing something after my
schedule pressures had subsided.  I am now doing some additional research on
AHI as time permits, but I have still been unable to get the paula driver to
work -- something that will have to happen before I decide to build a driver
for the AD516.


Best Regards,
Ben Fuller

[to see what I was working on to intently last year check out
http://www.dreamweaver.com/]






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X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-ReplyTo-No: 1325 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1326 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts...
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 18:00:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ben Fuller wrote:

>schedule pressures had subsided.  I am now doing some additional research on
>AHI as time permits, but I have still been unable to get the paula driver to
>work -- something that will have to happen before I decide to build a driver
>for the AD516.

Hi Ben and thank you for writing, I appreciate it.

About the AHI - I know that an earlier version of the Paula driver had a bug.
I had problems installing it myself. However, the recent version of the
driver works fine here (A4000/030/25). I had to use the preference program to
set it up properly. Also, I think it might be a good idea to contact Martin
Blom directly. He's a nice guy and works fast (used less than 12 hours from
my request for a Studio 16 filesaver to a compiled binary showed up in my mail
- not released yet though). His address is

        mailto:[e-mail] <Martin Blom>


Kind regards,

- Kenny

X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-ReplyTo-No: 1318 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1327 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Changing Attitudes!!!
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 18:15:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Gord Clink wrote:
>quality software to run on it. I don't really know where I'm trying to go
>with this, but reading Ben's thoughts made me kind of sad....

Yup, but think about this way: we're here to share our interrest in sound
and video editing using on of the greatest packages there is (was?). Ok, so
we are stuck in the past, but the stuff still gives us fun and joy and best
of all: it gets the job done! It also proves that we are not average IQ'ed
mainstreamers that goes with the flow saying 'gack gack' and jump when
others tell us to (M$?) and can't make the optimal out of what we have just
because it's not fashion anymore. I think we should focus on getting the
best out of what we have, I think that's what most people are here for: the
interrest in what the project can bring to their system. Some hope for
miracles and some just for a little improvement - nothing is impossible, it
just take some energy and willingness.

>Recently, I have send a few messages to some larger software firms like
>Borland, etc.  pleading them to support the Amiga. I don't know if this is
>wasted effort of what, but I guess it can't hurt.

Never say never, though it would require some luck. The best thing is if
Gatway/AI contacted them directly. This has much more influence than a
private person. We should bring AI ideas and let them decide what is
realitic. They are the 'captain of the ship' and I don't think they want us
to hit ground.

Well, just my opinions. :-)


- Kenny

X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-ReplyTo-No: 1320 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1328 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Mike Masquith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Don't tread on me says Bart Simpson
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 18:30:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Mike Masquith wrote:

>I have to agree. (Not with the sarcasm, though! :)) I've read some
>articles by people in the high end of the recording biz, and the
>current top-of-the-line digital stuff at 24 bits is just becoming
>satisfactory to them compared to their high-dollar analog equipment.
>One guy in particular had some convincing technical arguments behind

Of course, it's pure logic, 32-bit has higher resolution than 16-bit and is
closer to analog 'resolution'. But however, I disagree with /some/ of the
approach due to a few down to earth things: a) only people in billion
dollars or so studios can hear the difference, b) the same people are
probably fanatic about it, c) who is gonna hear the end result and what is
it stored at and played through ? d) what is most important of the end
result: the content or the methode ?

Most of the cases 16-bit is more than good enough. For instance, video has a
bandwidth approximatly 33khz and even CD-quality is overkill. More and more
TV channels broadcast in MPEG - the quality is reduced automatically. Then,
most people who watch this video, what sound system do they use ? That's for
video. For sound: to squeece the quality of 32-bit the listener needs a
pretty good amplifier and even better loudspeakers, a special built
listening room and of course good ears.

I am sure there are many legitimate reasons to use 32-bit sound (such as
reducing integer errors etc.) and I am not against development, quite the
contrary, but I think we should compare the weights of it all, is 32-bit
worth the trouble when 16-bit still impress people and _most_ people won't
hear the difference ? Of course, back in the days when digital was new I'm
sure people said the same thing about that as I say about 32-bit sound now
:)  But I am just trying to look at it from different angles, I am open
myself to review my opinions if the reason can be justified. Right now I
don't feel they are.

regards,

- Kenny

X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-ReplyTo-No: 1322 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1329 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Mike Masquith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Estimated No.
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 18:32:01
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Mike Masquith wrote:

>> does everyone else think?
>I agree. We need to know. Need to get those S16 users to stand up and
>BE COUNTED! :))

I think that might be difficult. I'm sure Ben Fuller has an approximate
sales number, but we don't know how many cards are still in use and not all
has Internet. :-/


- Kenny

From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:49:28 +0500
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-ReplyTo-No: 1318 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1330 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Sky is the limit, at least in that direction
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 06:49:00
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> = Gord Clink's words on 23-Jan-98:
>I find it very disheartening, and at no-ones fault but Commodores, that
>we Amiga users were once very proud of our system because it was truly a
>superior system to anything else, including applications. Now we glow
>when we can just do the same things as other computers. This is very
>sad!! Ben is right in a way....

Hi, Gord! I too, have been sad over this more than once. A few days ago
I tried to articulate here, on the list, what Ben brought clarity to.

But we have ourselves to blame, too. I mentioned denial, as practiced
by disfunctional (ie, abused) families. Many in the Amiga community have
denied these problems exist, so of course there is often very little
discussion of solutions. People need to demand better, of themselves and
the companies/developers invoved, and make efforts that can be useful.
We hid our heads in the sand, not noticing positive, competitive changes
and new, better ideas on other platforms.


Gary Mula's letter last night welcoming Ben spoke some practical and
heartfelt words. Paraphrasing in my own unique and dense-headed style:

(1) The platform is viable as long as one can do one's job with it,
without being compromised. If one has a sizable investment, knows and
fluently uses the tools, it might still be more efficient to keep doing
so than to invest in a new platform and its associated complexities.

(2) Many of us have a dream still. And if a torch is lit here {AHI
driver} and a torch is lit there {improved system-wide printing for
instance} . . . why, soon we will be able to light our own village, and
beyond! (Hopefully no Irving Goulds or Mehdi Alis will be anywhere near
a grass hut with a torch.)


>I still believe that the Amiga OS is superior to most other systems
>(Windoze!!), but that doesn't do us much good if there is no high
>quality software to run on it.

Windozzze, as an OS, is a bloated hack, but they have accumulated /some/
good ideas there. And '95 includes some utilities, features, etc, that
we are in great need of to be taken seriously in the late 90s. And the
development tools are great. And yes, for a professional in any field,
or a hobbyist, there are many killer-apps. We lag behind.

>Recently, I have send a few messages to some larger software firms like
>Borland, etc. pleading them to support the Amiga. I don't know if this
>is wasted effort of what, but I guess it can't hurt.

That is great. Amiga users (and this includes some developers!) are the
reason the Amiga lives. Their advocacy is heartening. I spend a fair
amount of time (and spent much as a beta-tester and dealer) talking to
developers that are already here on the platform. Some of them are
incredibly sharp. But different ones need feedback, encouragement, funds,
direction, prodding. Some of them have been here from the start and have
suffered The End.

I think the best we can do is support with our dollars, our hearts, our
ideas--with our eyes open and our ears to the ground. Things can go
anywhere--

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] 23 Jan 98 18:30:33 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Mike Masquith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Don't tread on me says Bart Simpson
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 18:30:00
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Mike Masquith wrote:

>I have to agree. (Not with the sarcasm, though! :)) I've read some
>articles by people in the high end of the recording biz, and the
>current top-of-the-line digital stuff at 24 bits is just becoming
>satisfactory to them compared to their high-dollar analog equipment.
>One guy in particular had some convincing technical arguments behind

Of course, it's pure logic, 32-bit has higher resolution than 16-bit and is
closer to analog 'resolution'. But however, I disagree with /some/ of the
approach due to a few down to earth things: a) only people in billion
dollars or so studios can hear the difference, b) the same people are
probably fanatic about it, c) who is gonna hear the end result and what is
it stored at and played through ? d) what is most important of the end
result: the content or the methode ?

Most of the cases 16-bit is more than good enough. For instance, video has a
bandwidth approximatly 33khz and even CD-quality is overkill. More and more
TV channels broadcast in MPEG - the quality is reduced automatically. Then,
most people who watch this video, what sound system do they use ? That's for
video. For sound: to squeece the quality of 32-bit the listener needs a
pretty good amplifier and even better loudspeakers, a special built
listening room and of course good ears.

I am sure there are many legitimate reasons to use 32-bit sound (such as
reducing integer errors etc.) and I am not against development, quite the
contrary, but I think we should compare the weights of it all, is 32-bit
worth the trouble when 16-bit still impress people and _most_ people won't
hear the difference ? Of course, back in the days when digital was new I'm
sure people said the same thing about that as I say about 32-bit sound now
:)  But I am just trying to look at it from different angles, I am open
myself to review my opinions if the reason can be justified. Right now I
don't feel they are.

regards,

- Kenny

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From [e-mail] 23 Jan 98 18:32:52 +0100
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X-Message-No: 1332 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Mike Masquith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Estimated No.
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 18:32:01
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Mike Masquith wrote:

>> does everyone else think?
>I agree. We need to know. Need to get those S16 users to stand up and
>BE COUNTED! :))

I think that might be difficult. I'm sure Ben Fuller has an approximate
sales number, but we don't know how many cards are still in use and not all
has Internet. :-/


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] 23 Jan 98 18:15:38 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Changing Attitudes!!!
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 18:15:00
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Gord Clink wrote:
>quality software to run on it. I don't really know where I'm trying to go
>with this, but reading Ben's thoughts made me kind of sad....

Yup, but think about this way: we're here to share our interrest in sound
and video editing using on of the greatest packages there is (was?). Ok, so
we are stuck in the past, but the stuff still gives us fun and joy and best
of all: it gets the job done! It also proves that we are not average IQ'ed
mainstreamers that goes with the flow saying 'gack gack' and jump when
others tell us to (M$?) and can't make the optimal out of what we have just
because it's not fashion anymore. I think we should focus on getting the
best out of what we have, I think that's what most people are here for: the
interrest in what the project can bring to their system. Some hope for
miracles and some just for a little improvement - nothing is impossible, it
just take some energy and willingness.

>Recently, I have send a few messages to some larger software firms like
>Borland, etc.  pleading them to support the Amiga. I don't know if this is
>wasted effort of what, but I guess it can't hurt.

Never say never, though it would require some luck. The best thing is if
Gatway/AI contacted them directly. This has much more influence than a
private person. We should bring AI ideas and let them decide what is
realitic. They are the 'captain of the ship' and I don't think they want us
to hit ground.

Well, just my opinions. :-)


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] 23 Jan 98 18:00:10 +0100
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X-Message-No: 1334 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Some thoughts...
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 18:00:00
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Ben Fuller wrote:

>schedule pressures had subsided.  I am now doing some additional research on
>AHI as time permits, but I have still been unable to get the paula driver to
>work -- something that will have to happen before I decide to build a driver
>for the AD516.

Hi Ben and thank you for writing, I appreciate it.

About the AHI - I know that an earlier version of the Paula driver had a bug.
I had problems installing it myself. However, the recent version of the
driver works fine here (A4000/030/25). I had to use the preference program to
set it up properly. Also, I think it might be a good idea to contact Martin
Blom directly. He's a nice guy and works fast (used less than 12 hours from
my request for a Studio 16 filesaver to a compiled binary showed up in my mail
- not released yet though). His address is

        mailto:[e-mail] <Martin Blom>


Kind regards,

- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:54:40 +0900
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From: Rene' Schaap <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: RE:It's all a hoax... Area 51-6???
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On Thu, Jan 22, 1998, at 01:11 PM, dhomas trenn wrote:

> greenboy spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:
>
> > No. You are still missing the point. Though Load and Save are involved,
> > being able to use the card to AUDITION your edits/effects is very useful.
> > That is all the arexx is for. Just because it is not what you want it to
>
> It's not what you said it was.  You said you had an ARexx script for
> sample wrench that allowed it to play back sounds on the AD516 WITHOUT
> having to LOAD AND SAVE sounds.  I wanted to know how this was
> accomplished.  You refused to tell us how they did this, insisting that
> Dissidents had the information to do what you said this was doing.
>

This is how i use the sample playback on the Ad516 via Wrench:

First o load S16, than i load Wrench.
Than load a sample into wrench.
My F1 key executes an Arexx scrip which plays a sample loaded in wrench via
the Ad516 hardware.
So, S16 did not load a sample, wrench played it directly.
I do not know if there are any copy-rights on the script, when not i wll send it to
you Dhomas.



SeeYaa



Rene'(DSP) Schaap


        _
       ( ) No Empty tape Productions.
       ------------------------------
Get your Masterplan ready for the interactive decade.

Email   :    [e-mail]

Homepage:    http://www.dutch.nl/net

Voice   :    0031 (0)35 52 42 72 0

FAX     :    [phone]




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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:57:01 -0000
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From: Don Cox <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Changing Attitudes!!!
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 17:57:00
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On 23-Jan-98, Gord Clink wrote:

>is no high quality software to run on it. I don't really know where I'm
trying
>to go with this, but reading Ben's thoughts made me kind of sad....

The problem is that the sales of Amiga software are tiny - a few copies a
year, typically. Most Amiga users have had their machines for ages and have
all the software they need. This will only be remedied if Index and Lotus
Pacific and DCE sell lots of Amigas to new owners.
The market has also been spoiled by the spread of free software on cover disks
or elsewhere. Who would buy a sequencer when B&P is free?
Hardware is selling well - Power in the UK sold 70 68040 accelerators in a
week. Several thousand PPC cards have been sold.
Even so, I think people would buy a completely new kind of program, or a
really original game.
--
Don Cox
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:25:01 -0000
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From: Don Cox <[e-mail]>
To: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Don't tread on me says Bart Simpson
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On 23-Jan-98, Kenny Nilsen wrote:

>Of course, it's pure logic, 32-bit has higher resolution than 16-bit and is
>closer to analog 'resolution'. But however, I disagree with /some/ of the
>approach due to a few down to earth things: a) only people in billion
>dollars or so studios can hear the difference, b) the same people are
>probably fanatic about it, c) who is gonna hear the end result and what is
>it stored at and played through ? d) what is most important of the end
>result: the content or the methode ?
It depends whether you are talking about masters or final consumer copies.
Using the best possible quality for masters makes sense even if current
consumer technology can't handle it. Look at the quality of sound we now hear
from CD versions of 1940s recordings (taken from original parts) compared to
what listeners then got on their 78s.

--
Don Cox
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:42:15 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] A Moving Target Gathers No Moss
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 09:42:00
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> = Don Cox's words on 23-Jan-98:
>The problem is that the sales of Amiga software are tiny - a few copies a
>year, typically. Most Amiga users have had their machines for ages and
>have all the software they need. This will only be remedied if Index and
>Lotus Pacific and DCE sell lots of Amigas to new owners.

Hey, Don, mind if I interject (no, not /that/  I hope  :-D) . . .

Pro-type users and serious hobbyists (which probably all buyers of the
Sunrize products are) probably have different buying-habits than gamers and
dabblers. We will pay serious dollars and spend time learning new tools and
enhancements. I bet this is a larger, unspoken group than we imagine.

I know that I will always buy the next ImageFX or sequencer if it increases
my creativity, power, and perhaps ease-of-use. I will ask for more features,
capabilites, and modules, and ask for better interfaces. I sold almost
exclusively to this type of client when I was a dealer. They are still out
there, and most still love their Amigas (even if they have had to expand to
other platforms to compete). They are waiting for it to happen here again,
I'm sure.

This will attract some new buyers, especially if other things are happening.

>The market has also been spoiled by the spread of free software on cover
>disks or elsewhere. Who would buy a sequencer when B&P is free?

Yeah, through desperation, some software houses have given away the store.
Others are just dumping less-than-state-of-art titles though. The pleasure
and power of even the _current_ AmigaOS coupled with a better sequencer --
well there are some amazing things that are being done elsewhere that
increase productivity in this regard. And they have manuals.

>On 23-Jan-98, Kenny Nilsen wrote:
>Of course, it's pure logic, 32-bit has higher resolution than 16-bit and
>is closer to analog 'resolution'. But however, I disagree with /some/ of
>the approach due to a few down to earth things: a) only people in billion
>dollars or so studios can hear the difference, b) the same people are
>probably fanatic about it, c) who is gonna hear the end result and what is
>it stored at and played through ? d) what is most important of the end
>result: the content or the method ?

/Content/ is of course the most important to the artist -- if not always in
the entertainment industry. But Method can often help Content find its way
to its own level.

> = Don Cox's reply on 24-Jan-98:
>It depends whether you are talking about masters or final consumer copies.
>Using the best possible quality for masters makes sense even if current
>consumer technology can't handle it. Look at the quality of sound we now
>hear from CD versions of 1940s recordings (taken from original parts)
>compared to what listeners then got on their 78s.

Archival is still not close to being solved in the industry. Longevity, as
well as accuracy, is being sought. And higher-bit-digital is needed for
music-for-listening, if not AV. The final consumer quality of the 16-bit CD
is pretty high, when good mastering has taken place. AD516 hardware is still
useful for many things, because it was well-designed. It can still
contribute, especially when used in a project studio surrounded by other
quality items.

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail]  Fri Jan 23 19:33:44 1998
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X-Message-No: 1343 (database)
From: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Estimated No.
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 20:39:00
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Kenny wrote:
>... I'm sure Ben Fuller has an approximate sales number, but ...

I was in engineering, not accounting... what makes you think I have sales
numbers?

Ben.





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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Estimated No.
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 22:31:01
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Ben Fuller wrote:

>Kenny wrote:
>>... I'm sure Ben Fuller has an approximate sales number, but ...
>I was in engineering, not accounting... what makes you think I have sales
>numbers?

You sound like you are offended - that was not my intention so if you are
I'm sorry. You worked at Sunrize so I assumed you would have known (from
others at Sunrize).


- Kenny

From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:02:30 +0500
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Subject: [S16] Re: Estimated No.
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 10:02:00
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>Kenny wrote:
> ... I'm sure Ben Fuller has an approximate sales number, but ...

> = Ben Fuller's words on 24-Jan-98:
>I was in engineering, not accounting... what makes you think I have sales
>numbers?

Sunrize made a few astounding claims in their Dealer Letters from time to
time. Could those be true? you ask. At one time I believed they were: they
sent out a lot of high-class promos, and always great glossies!

Most likely, the problem was *not* that they hadn't sold enough: they had
entered another hardware product into the marketplace at about the same time
Amigas became unavailable, the entire marketplace was freaking out, and
visions-of-jumping danced in some heads. R&D, advertizing, salaries, and no
new slots to put the products into...

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:35:18 -0500
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X-Message-No: 1349 (database)
From: Serge A Guilbert <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SMPTEout -Reply -Reply
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 22:35:00
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-->Lots of good info there Serge! ;-)  I've yet to try to sync up my Tascam 38 to

Glad to help  :>)

-->One thing Gord and others ( me too ) might benefit from is a CD that has SMPTE

Interesting concept.



Sounding off;
Serge A. Guilbert, B.Eng
CAE Electronics, Flight Simulators, Sound Group
[phone] x4129
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] 23 Jan 98 22:31:57 +0100
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X-Message-No: 1350 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Estimated No.
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 22:31:01
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Ben Fuller wrote:

>Kenny wrote:
>>... I'm sure Ben Fuller has an approximate sales number, but ...
>I was in engineering, not accounting... what makes you think I have sales
>numbers?

You sound like you are offended - that was not my intention so if you are
I'm sorry. You worked at Sunrize so I assumed you would have known (from
others at Sunrize).


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:54:17 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
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Subject: [S16] Breakfast Of Champs?
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 10:54:00
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Ben Fuller wrote:
>>AHI as time permits, but I have still been unable to get the paula driver to
>>work -- something that will have to happen before I decide to build a driver
>>for the AD516.

  Ah, jeez! Not this.

Kenny:
>About the AHI - I know that an earlier version of the Paula driver had a bug.
>I had problems installing it myself. However, the recent version of the
>driver works fine here (A4000/030/25). I had to use the preference program to
>set it up properly.

  Good. A false alarm.

Gord Clink wrote:
>>quality software to run on it. I don't really know where I'm trying to go
>>with this, but reading Ben's thoughts made me kind of sad....

Kenny here:
>Yup, but think about this way: we're here to share our interest in sound
>and video editing using on of the greatest packages there is (was?). Ok, so
>we are stuck in the past, but the stuff still gives us fun and joy and best
>of all: it gets the job done! <snip> they can't make the optimal out of what
>we have just because it's not fashion anymore. I think we should focus on
>getting the best out of what we have, I think that's what most people are
>here for: the interest in what the project can bring to their system. Some
>hope for miracles and some just for a little improvement - nothing is
>impossible, it just take some energy and willingness.

AMEN. I hate quoting such big chunks in email but this is all so true,
especially for any endeavors in artistic way. The piano is still around,
isn't it? And some folks are playing some /real/  old Strads. [*NOT* the
Fender© guitar, thank you!  %-/]

Gord:
>>Recently, I have send a few messages to some larger software firms like

Kenny again:
>The best thing is if Gateway/AI contacted them directly. This has much more
>influence than a private person. We should bring AI ideas and let them
>decide what is realitic. They are the 'captain of the ship' and I don't
>think they want us to hit ground.

  Everybody needs to do what they can, I guess.

Mike Masquith wrote:
>>I have to agree. (Not with the sarcasm, though! :)) I've read some
>>articles by people in the high end of the recording biz, and the
>>current top-of-the-line digital stuff at 24 bits is just becoming
>>satisfactory to them compared to their high-dollar analog equipment.

  What's wrong with sarcasm? Especially if it is fleet-of-foot?  {:)-|==<

Kenny replied:
>reducing integer errors etc.) and I am not against development, quite the
>contrary, but I think we should compare the weights of it all, is 32-bit
>worth the trouble when 16-bit still impress people and _most_ people won't
>hear the difference?
>:) But I am just trying to look at it from different angles, I am open
>myself to review my opinions if the reason can be justified. Right now I

Actually there have been a couple of interim solutions to store 20-bit sound
using 16-bit cards, but they are not especially applicable here . . . The
AD516 quality -- in a setting with the proper outboard gear, and all
precautions taken to ensure good signal-to-noise ratio (read: solve all
grounding problems & consider balanced power) -- CAN STILL BLOW MINDS!

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:03:14 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: Estimated, Nothin'
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 11:03:00
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Kenny wrote:
>>>... I'm sure Ben Fuller has an approximate sales number, but ...

Ben Fuller wrote:
>>I was in engineering, not accounting... what makes you think I have sales
>>numbers?

> = Kenny Nilsen's words on 24-Jan-98:
>You sound like you are offended - that was not my intention so if you are

Another instance when it would be nice to have streaming videophones
instead of keyboards. That way we could misread each other's facial
expressions and body-english instead  8^]

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:33:47 -0600
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From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: John???
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 23:33:00
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What ever happended to "John" I think his name was, one of the other guys from SunRize...... "John Hickson" or something like that.... Or maybe I'm wrong....  Anyway, does anyone know what happened to him?  Or is he working for the same company as you Ben?

Gord Clink

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X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: All <[e-mail]>
Subject: Getting back on track
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 23:59:00
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Oukidouki, let's try to get back on track.

I have a few requests for some of the people who has been forward on the
list:

- John Blyth: how's the analyse on the config files going ?

- Bob Maple/Alfonso Curiel: why don't you two cooperate on the CMX <->
Cuelist converter. I will give you both a free version of the forthcoming
QMaster arexx host if you would like to make an arexx program to do the
convertion (Qmaster supply all needed arexx comands to handle cuelist files
and it does it pretty fast (asm) :)

- Greenboy: I have contacted Stephan Kost (SoundFX) and a guy called Doug
Shannon. If you like I can channel further contact to you. The contact I am
trying to establish with them is related to support and information
(respectivly).

Greenboy also mentioned a brainstorming so why don't we have one. If you
have _anything_ on your mind, big or small, genious or stupid, doesn't
matter, just let us know.

Ok, I'll start off with some ideas of my own:

- Graphical editor of mixer files. To adjust and fine-"tune" the envelopes,
better grouping, arexx and more.

- Filter processing. Lowpass, highpass, bandpass and notch filtering. I have
already made the FPU/asm routines (almost realtime on my 030/25 so it should
be capable of doing realtime on a 040/25 or better), but need a gui and AHI
interface...

- Library to handle the Studio 16 files. Allow simple handling.

For QMaster:

Arexx script that can fix paths in cuelists. Useful if you move samples on
your HD and don't want to spend time on editing every single entry.

Jukebox - rather useless. Can parse a sampledir and put samples after one
eachother, hence jukebox. Nice when you have company I guess.

AppendCuelists - merges cuelists _horizontally_ . Studio 16's own merge
function can only merge vertically. All entries from the second cuelist are
grouped together so they can easily be adjusted.

.. I'm empty, it's getting late :) but please append the list. Just have in
mind that modules that interface with Studio 16 directly will be unlikely to
have maded so consider all projects to be external programs to accompny
Studio 16.


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 23 Jan 98 23:59:27 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
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Oukidouki, let's try to get back on track.

I have a few requests for some of the people who has been forward on the
list:

- John Blyth: how's the analyse on the config files going ?

- Bob Maple/Alfonso Curiel: why don't you two cooperate on the CMX <->
Cuelist converter. I will give you both a free version of the forthcoming
QMaster arexx host if you would like to make an arexx program to do the
convertion (Qmaster supply all needed arexx comands to handle cuelist files
and it does it pretty fast (asm) :)

- Greenboy: I have contacted Stephan Kost (SoundFX) and a guy called Doug
Shannon. If you like I can channel further contact to you. The contact I am
trying to establish with them is related to support and information
(respectivly).

Greenboy also mentioned a brainstorming so why don't we have one. If you
have _anything_ on your mind, big or small, genious or stupid, doesn't
matter, just let us know.

Ok, I'll start off with some ideas of my own:

- Graphical editor of mixer files. To adjust and fine-"tune" the envelopes,
better grouping, arexx and more.

- Filter processing. Lowpass, highpass, bandpass and notch filtering. I have
already made the FPU/asm routines (almost realtime on my 030/25 so it should
be capable of doing realtime on a 040/25 or better), but need a gui and AHI
interface...

- Library to handle the Studio 16 files. Allow simple handling.

For QMaster:

Arexx script that can fix paths in cuelists. Useful if you move samples on
your HD and don't want to spend time on editing every single entry.

Jukebox - rather useless. Can parse a sampledir and put samples after one
eachother, hence jukebox. Nice when you have company I guess.

AppendCuelists - merges cuelists _horizontally_ . Studio 16's own merge
function can only merge vertically. All entries from the second cuelist are
grouped together so they can easily be adjusted.

.. I'm empty, it's getting late :) but please append the list. Just have in
mind that modules that interface with Studio 16 directly will be unlikely to
have maded so consider all projects to be external programs to accompny
Studio 16.


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:08:40 -0500
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X-Message-No: 1357 (database)
From: Serge A Guilbert <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SMPTEout -Reply -Reply
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 00:08:00
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Hello Don;

-->Did you ever try the SMPTEout module with the Amiga genlocked to a video

I don't have any video equipment. Not too familiar with that domain,
unfortunately.


-->camera? That ought to give a more accurate timing, but I haven't had a chance

Please pardon my ignorance, but I'm not sure I understand your setup. Would the
SMPTEOut be used as the Master? Is the video camera used as a slave? Who supplies
the genlock code to synch the Amiga? Or is it vice versa? Just curious.

-->You don't mention what version of the SMPTEoutput you tested. I have 1.02.

I think it's the latest (1.02???).


-->As the software multitasks, perhaps it is being delayed by having to share
-->time with other tasks?

I was thinking about this after I wrote my rambling response. It occurred to me
that CyberGraphx (v2) might be a culprit in this situation. It has already been
established that CyberGraphx creates audio glitches during video updates. I know
that other users swear by the SMPTEOut's accuracy.

Whenever I get a chance to update to CyberGraphx v3 (hopefully soon!), I'll try
and see if SMPTEOut is any more accurate than it is now.

Perhaps, in the interests of pseudo-science, other users who don't use CyberGraphx
(and even those who do), could, at their leisure, try out this simple test, and
report their findings back to the mailing list. All they need is the SMPTEOut
Module, an AD516, and a sequencer which locks up with Studio16 (B&P, etc).


1. Program a five minute drum beat onto the sequencer. Even a metronome would do.

2. Using the Studio16 Internal SMPTE Generator, record a few five minute tracks
onto the Cuelist. The idea is to keep to the beat playing back from the sequencer.
Simple guitar would do, or even hand clapping.

3. Just to see what happens, change the SMPTE time frame of the Studio16, on the
Preferences menu, and play back the Cuelist you have just recorded. For ex, if you
first recorded with 30FPS, drop it to 24FPS. What you should notice is that the
Cuelist tracks start to drift after a while (in reference to the sequencer). This
will happen because the sequencer (and all other MIDI equipment) will adjust
itself to whatever speed SMPTE is at. The Cuelist can't do that.

4. Now that you know what to expect, return the SMPTE time frame to the original
setting (30FPS), and try playing back the Cuelist using the SMPTEOut module this
time. If your SMPTEOut module is as inaccurate as mine, once again you should
notice a drift occuring.


Just a thought.



Sounding off;
Serge A. Guilbert, B.Eng
CAE Electronics, Flight Simulators, Sound Group
[phone] x4129
[e-mail]


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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:08:00 -0800
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X-Message-No: 1358 (database)
From: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: John???
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 00:08:00
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From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
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>What ever happended to "John" I think his name was, one of the other guys
from

There was no one at SunRize named John when I was there.

Ben.






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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:53:17 -0800
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From: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: John???
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 00:53:00
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On 23-Jan-98, Gord Clink wrote:
>>What ever happended to "John" I think his name was, one of the other guys
>from

I used to talk often with Todd Modjeski and Doug... I don't
recall Dougs last name.   He handeled the beta testers.
Both were great guys.  Very friendly and helpful


Of course Anthony was head honch.  Early on I talked to him
often as well.... I really wonder what he is up to...??





--
-------------------------------------------------------

Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] 24 Jan 98 01:50:21 +0100
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X-Message-No: 1363 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: John???
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 01:50:00
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Gary Mula wrote:

>I used to talk often with Todd Modjeski and Doug... I don't

Shannon ?

>recall Dougs last name.   He handeled the beta testers.
>Both were great guys.  Very friendly and helpful

John, could it be Jamie (Krutz) ? If so, he's on the list.


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:16:04 -0500
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1365 (database)
From: Danny Whitesel <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Digest version...
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 03:16:00
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I looked for this option when I signed up for the Studio16 list and I
didn't see it. Is there anyway to get the list in a digest version? At
first it was no big deal...A few message a day. Now I got to check mail and
I see, "Downloading message 1 of 37". YIKES!


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From [e-mail] Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:32:20 -0600
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From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: John???
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 8 04:32:00
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>I used to talk often with Todd Modjeski and Doug... I don't
>recall Dougs last name.   He handeled the beta testers.
>Both were great guys.  Very friendly and helpful

Yes..... Todd Modjeski is the guy I'm talking about.... I don't know why I was
thinking John.... sorry!!!!

I talked to Todd once, but he didn't seem to be too interested in Studio16
anymore....

Gord

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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:33:00 -0800
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X-Message-No: 1367 (database)
From: Floyd Diebel <[e-mail]>
To: Serge A Guilbert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SMPTEout -Reply -Reply
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 03:33:00
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On 23-Jan-98, Serge A Guilbert wrote:
>-->Lots of good info there Serge! ;-)  I've yet to try to sync up my Tascam
38
>to

>Glad to help  :>)

>-->One thing Gord and others ( me too ) might benefit from is a CD that has
>SMPTE

>Interesting concept.

this works flawlessly for me.  this is how i link my flyer to the machine with
the
ad516s installed.

--
[e-mail]
a/v composition and engineering.

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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Danny Whitesel <[e-mail]>
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 04:28:00
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Danny Whitesel wrote:

>didn't see it. Is there anyway to get the list in a digest version? At

Sorry, Majordomo only offer global digest mode (AFAIK) and that will make
everyone receive in digest form.



- Kenny

From [e-mail] 24 Jan 98 04:28:47 +0100
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Danny Whitesel wrote:

>didn't see it. Is there anyway to get the list in a digest version? At

Sorry, Majordomo only offer global digest mode (AFAIK) and that will make
everyone receive in digest form.



- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:33:30 -0500
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From: Serge A Guilbert <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SMPTEout -Reply -Reply
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 04:33:00
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Hello Richard;

-->In your very informative reply to Gord Clink you mentioned:

Very kind.


-->Do I understand this correctly? You had drifting problems between the Studio 16
-->cuelist and B&P using only the internal SMPTE generator in Studio 16? Was this
-->because the Studio 16 tracks were originally recorded using an external SMPTE
-->source?

Yes indeed. The timing problems were caused because I had striped my R-8
reel-to-reel (my Master SMPTE) with an inaccurate time code. As a result, the
subsequent tracks recorded onto the Cuelist (using the R-8 as SMPTE Master) were
affected. Why? A small example:

Let's say we want to make a simple song. A MIDI drum sequence (played on the B&P
sequencer), an analog bass, an acoustic guitar, and a vocal (or two, for effect).

Let's say, for argument's sake that the SMPTEOut generates a code which is
slightly slow (say it loses 1 second after 3 minutes). If we use the SMPTEOut as
our SMPTE Master (or we use the reel-to-reel R-8; it's the same thing, relatively
speaking, because the R-8 is striped using the SMPTEOut), then the sequencer (B&P)
will play along at that slightly slower speed.

Why, you may ask? It's got to do with the nature of the MIDI/SMPTE conversion
process, which B&P uses. It doesn't differentiate between slower, or faster
incoming code (nor should it, really). It simply converts the highs, and lows of
the analog SMPTE levels into an equivalent binary MIDI value. If you were to slow
down the incoming SMPTE code to 1/10 its original speed (you can do this with the
pitch control of your ree-to-reel), you will find that B&P will slow down its
count accordingly. Of course, at this speed, you would probably notice an audible
difference.

The catch is, however, if the SMPTE code is only SLIGHTLY slow, as in this
example, you won't be able to notice an audible difference.

In our example, this means that the MIDI drum track which we've programmed in B&P
will also play slightly slower than it really should. OK, now it's time to lay
down an analog bass track, an acoustic guitar, and a lead vocal, all onto the
Studio16 Cuelist, but, using this slowed down MIDI drum track (or click track, or
metronome) as a reference, albeit a faulty one. You can see what's going to
happen. All the analog tracks will be recorded onto the Cuelist in synch with that
reference. (Keep in mind, however, you should never have a problem with drifting
as long as you ALWAYS use the SMPTEOut as your SMPTE Master.)

So where, oh where is the problem you ask? If we try to use the Internal SMPTE
Generator, which is an accurate source, to play back our freshly recorded Cuelist
tracks, we will find that the tracks will start to drift (maybe after a few
minutes). This is because, this time, the incoming SMPTE code is the correct
speed, and a result, B&P will convert the code at the correct speed (ie: slightly
faster than before). This means that the MIDI drum beat will also be generated
slighly faster. No big deal right? Wrong. Don't forget, Studio16 will NOT play
back its analog tracks slightly faster. It will either play at the sampled speed,
or it won't (let's assume 44.1Khz). It doesn't dynamically convert on-the-fly. In
this case, the erroneous SMPTEOut is not inaccurate enough to actually stop
Studio16 from playing. As a result, we now have a drum track which plays back at a
slightly faster speed, and the bass, guitar, and vocals, which are in synch with
each other, but all slghtly slower than the critical drum track. Say hello to Mr.
Drift. Not good at all. You can kiss that session goodbye.

How do I know the Internal SMPTE is accurate? Well, using the same test described
above, I've compared it with the output of my rack-mount Fostex 4010 SMPTE
Generator (Rock-steady, remember?  :>)   ). Very accurate. Very compatible. No
drift . No problems.

I'm guessing here, but it's my impression that the Internal SMPTE Generator will
always be inherently more accurate than the SMPTEOut Module, because the Internal
SMPTE uses the AD516 hardware (and crystal). The SMPTEOut, on the other hand, is a
stand-alone s/w module which doesn't even require the presence of a hardware card.
Perhaps it uses the motherboard clock? Whatever it does, it probably polls the
Zorro bus, which will engender delays (pure speculation). Maybe others can
clarify. In my particular case, it may even be affected by CyberGraphx audio
update problems (documented previously).

In response to your query: yes, "the relationship between Studio 16 and B&P is
solid, as long as the internal SMPTE on the AD516 is the timing source for both."

I feel it's important to stress, that, almost any source will be accurate,
relatively speaking, as long as it's the same source which is used all the time
for record and playback. The danger is though, that if your supposed "standard"
SMPTE source is not really standard (compared to the rest of the world), you are
limiting the "transportability" of your recordings. This may, or may not be a
problem for you, depending on your personal needs. For what it's worth, if you
haven't already guessed, my personal feeling is, you don't screw around with your
SMPTE source. It controls everything. Maybe even the size of your paycheque. HA!


-->internal SMPTE of the AD516 as my timing source. I played a 90 second sequence

Careful. 90 seconds does not give you much of a chance to catch phasing, or
drifting problems. Give it a good 5 minutes.


-->and simultaneously recorded it to a Studio 16 track. I repeated the procedure
-->but recorded the sequence to a different track. I then played the recorded
-->tracks  simutaneously to see how accurate the synchronization was. The two
-->tracks were pretty close (a very slight chorus effect showed up indicating a
-->small offset,  probably less than 10 milliseconds). I now wonder if I should

If I understand you correctly, you are recording your B&P sequence onto your
Studio16 Cuelist. Correct? I've never tried that. In the process you describe, you
should always be right on, because your SMPTE source remains unchanged. The
phasing is likely because of B&P.

I have experienced the "phasing" you describe, except, in my case, I've noticed it
while using B&P directly. It's most likely caused by the amount of randomness you
allow B&P while playing your sequence. For ex, if you insert a Pattern Tool onto
one of your drum tracks, which contains the same data as the actual track itself,
and play them both, you will notice the phasing on SOME of the notes. This is
because B&P will add a slight randomness while playing each note (to "naturalize"
it), so that the two same notes won't play with exactly the same MIDI
characteristics. The same would happen if you played the same track twice in a row
(which you would never notice), or, as in your case, recorded the same track onto
two synched up Cuelist tracks, allowing for a direct comparision. You may want to
verify your B&P settings.


Rest easy. Synch In Peace....



Sounding off;
Serge A. Guilbert, B.Eng
CAE Electronics, Flight Simulators, Sound Group
[phone] x4129
[e-mail]
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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:47:42 -0500
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X-Message-No: 1371 (database)
From: Serge A Guilbert <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Pay the Piper, Dance into the Future -Reply
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 04:47:00
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-->What do you guys think of paying for the capability (f.ex. an AHI driver) ?

-->Kenny, I am totally convinced that the scope of the project is so huge, at
-->least the way I envision it, that it would be negligent NOT to pay for it.
-->I want the real stuff. I want the developer to feel compensated enough to
-->continue to grow a killer-mondo-monster-shredder. The best the hardware is
-->capable of delivering...


Agreed. I'd even offer a downpayment (conditionally, of course). Pay the Piper so
we can Play with the Piper.


Sounding off;
Serge A. Guilbert, B.Eng
CAE Electronics, Flight Simulators, Sound Group
[phone] x4129
[e-mail]


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From [e-mail] Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:04:55 -0500
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From: Serge A Guilbert <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Syncing to Tape -Reply
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Hello Gary;

-->I have to say though that my trouble shooting didn't bring me to the same
-->conclusion about the Sunrize SMPTE Output.

Hmmm. Like I've mentioned on other responses, I'm beginning to suspect the evil
workings of CyberGraphx v2...    :>)

I understand your point of view though, but as per my experience, I still stand by
my statement. I'll take a h/w driven clock device over a s/w one any day.
Nonetheless, I'm glad to see others are using SMPTEOut with success. The last
thing I wanted to do was start some unwarranted fear-mongering.

-->get the prompt.  Mind you this is when there in no SMPTE present at all.

I've noticed the same thing occuring at times. For a while, I thought this was
just a bug with the Studio16 s/w. Just added to the confusion, whatthehey.



Sounding off;
Serge A. Guilbert, B.Eng
CAE Electronics, Flight Simulators, Sound Group
[phone] x4129
[e-mail]



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From [e-mail] Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:41:52 +0500
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From: Brian Fields <[e-mail]>
To: Don Cox <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Don't tread on me says Bart Simpson
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 20:41:01
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On 24-Jan-98, Don Cox wrote:
>On 23-Jan-98, Kenny Nilsen wrote:

>>Of course, it's pure logic, 32-bit has higher resolution than 16-bit and is
>>closer to analog 'resolution'. But however, I disagree with /some/ of the
>>approach due to a few down to earth things: a) only people in billion
>>dollars or so studios can hear the difference, b) the same people are
>>probably fanatic about it, c) who is gonna hear the end result and what is
>>it stored at and played through ? d) what is most important of the end
>>result: the content or the methode ?
>It depends whether you are talking about masters or final consumer copies.
>Using the best possible quality for masters makes sense even if current
>consumer technology can't handle it. Look at the quality of sound we now hear
>from CD versions of 1940s recordings (taken from original parts) compared to
>what listeners then got on their 78s.

>--
>Don Cox
>[e-mail]


Just for head food guys. The ADSP 2105 can be cascaded can it not?
Would filters or buffers allow the ASDP 2105 to do 32 bit sampling?
I'm not sure whether I'm off base or not. I do some work with IC
hardware and I decided a while back to keep my head in my music for
now. But I was just wondering. Maybe Mr. Fuller would care to answer.
I understand completely if he doesn't have the time to respond.

Brian Fields

[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:43:47 +0500
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From: Brian Fields <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: [S16] Forward Into The Past
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 20:43:00
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On 22-Jan-98, tony panaji wrote:
>Hi Brian

>> On 21-Jan-98, Kenny Nilsen wrote:
>> >What do you guys think of paying for the capability (f.ex. an AHI driver)
?
>> >- Kenny
>> >---
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>> I would pay also.
>> Brian
>> [e-mail]
>-- I'll pay it's gotta be worth it

> [e-mail] (Starlink Research)


Hi Tony,

Welcome.

Brian Fields


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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Brian Fields <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Don't tread on me says Bart Simpson
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 07:34:00
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Brian Fields wrote:

>Just for head food guys. The ADSP 2105 can be cascaded can it not?
>Would filters or buffers allow the ASDP 2105 to do 32 bit sampling?

In my research on the ADSP2105 I only found it capable of doing 16-bit
operations.

BTW: Did you guys know that the DSP has an Serial IO ? That means the DSP
itself can emulate modems (eg. voice modem, tone recognition etc.). I dunno
it the serial capability is accessible through the card though..

It's fully possible to feed sound to the DSP itself outside Studio 16 - I
have already manged to do so, but what I haven't managed is to control the
environment (setting volumes for inputs, output oscillators, frequency, pan
for channels etc.). The sound spends its time playing, but no sound comes
out so I need an overview on the environment.

Maybe Ben has some valuable information on the hardware specs/dsp registres
etc. ?


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 24 Jan 98 07:34:00 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Brian Fields <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Don't tread on me says Bart Simpson
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 07:34:00
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Brian Fields wrote:

>Just for head food guys. The ADSP 2105 can be cascaded can it not?
>Would filters or buffers allow the ASDP 2105 to do 32 bit sampling?

In my research on the ADSP2105 I only found it capable of doing 16-bit
operations.

BTW: Did you guys know that the DSP has an Serial IO ? That means the DSP
itself can emulate modems (eg. voice modem, tone recognition etc.). I dunno
it the serial capability is accessible through the card though..

It's fully possible to feed sound to the DSP itself outside Studio 16 - I
have already manged to do so, but what I haven't managed is to control the
environment (setting volumes for inputs, output oscillators, frequency, pan
for channels etc.). The sound spends its time playing, but no sound comes
out so I need an overview on the environment.

Maybe Ben has some valuable information on the hardware specs/dsp registres
etc. ?


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Sat, 24 Jan 1998 02:41:28 +0500
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From: Brian Fields <[e-mail]>
To: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Don't sample on me says Bart Simpson
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 22:41:00
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On 24-Jan-98, Kenny Nilsen wrote:
>Brian Fields wrote:

>>Just for head food guys. The ADSP 2105 can be cascaded can it not?
>>Would filters or buffers allow the ASDP 2105 to do 32 bit sampling?

>In my research on the ADSP2105 I only found it capable of doing 16-bit
>operations.

>BTW: Did you guys know that the DSP has an Serial IO ? That means the DSP
>itself can emulate modems (eg. voice modem, tone recognition etc.). I dunno
>it the serial capability is accessible through the card though..

>It's fully possible to feed sound to the DSP itself outside Studio 16 - I
>have already manged to do so, but what I haven't managed is to control the
>environment (setting volumes for inputs, output oscillators, frequency, pan
>for channels etc.). The sound spends its time playing, but no sound comes
>out so I need an overview on the environment.

>Maybe Ben has some valuable information on the hardware specs/dsp registres
>etc. ?


>- Kenny


You've got MY attention.

To go where no sound card has gone before. Why not? (rhetorically
speaking of course).

Brian


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From [e-mail] Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:57:47 +0100
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From: Maurizio Ciccione <[e-mail]>
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Subject: An official statement by AudioLabs
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Hello everybody,


after my recent posting of some notes about AudioLabs' products
(the already released AudioLab16 and the forthcoming ProStation)
I've got interesting feedback both in the mailing list and
privately. Thanks.

It seems that part of the audience in this list be excited by
the chance of running a modern (1998) hi-end application on
their AD516 hardware and I confirm my interest in making it
happen.



During recent days the discussion in this ml focused on the need
for an AHI driver, and the difficulties involved in getting one.

On this theme, I'd like to clarify (this may interest at least
"that" part of the audience) that an AHI driver for the AD516
would NOT allow to use ProStation or AudioLab16 with the Sunrize
hardware.



AudioLabs' products require AudioLabs' drivers. They support
every major ZII/ZIII board (including those not supported
by AHI) both in analog and digital modes plus analog motherboard
output.

We don't make drivers, the hardware manifacturers do after we
reach a commercial agreement. As for the development itself,
it's just a matter of an hour of work, on average, with our
supervision.

Unfortunatly the AD516 is the only ZII board without a driver
as there isn't a manifacturer we can discuss with.


(I'm not stating that AudioLabs will never support AHI, simply
there are no plans as of today).



Thanks for reading.




All the best,

dr. Maurizio Ciccione
AudioLabs, Digital Audio Engineering









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From [e-mail] Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:32:02 EST5EDT4,M4.1.0
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On 23-Jan-98, Serge A Guilbert wrote:
>Hello Don;

>Please pardon my ignorance, but I'm not sure I understand your setup. Would
>the
>SMPTEOut be used as the Master? Is the video camera used as a slave? Who
>supplies
>the genlock code to synch the Amiga? Or is it vice versa? Just curious.

The video camera (or blackburst generator or whatever) would supply the
timing clock, a genlock would synchronize the Amiga to the video source,
and SMPTEout would output SMPTE based on the timing signals provided by the
video camera.

The idea being that each SMPTE frame is synchronized with each video frame
(ie., so you don't have a new SMPTE frame occuring halfway through a video
frame etc.).

It is quite possible such a synchronization method would provide a more
stable timing reference over a period of time when compared to an aging
Amiga no longer in its prime.

>-->You don't mention what version of the SMPTEoutput you tested. I have 1.02.

>I think it's the latest (1.02???).

Same version here.

>-->As the software multitasks, perhaps it is being delayed by having to share
>-->time with other tasks?

>I was thinking about this after I wrote my rambling response. It occurred to
>me
>that CyberGraphx (v2) might be a culprit in this situation. It has already
>been
>established that CyberGraphx creates audio glitches during video updates. I
>know
>that other users swear by the SMPTEOut's accuracy.

Whenever I stripe with SMPTEout, it will be the only program running (all
utils and hacks turned off). I haven't yet had any problems, even when
striping to very abused old decks.

>Whenever I get a chance to update to CyberGraphx v3 (hopefully soon!), I'll
>try
>and see if SMPTEOut is any more accurate than it is now.

CGX v3 is much better, I can run Studio16 with a couple tracks going and
not get any audio interruptions when I change screens.

>4. Now that you know what to expect, return the SMPTE time frame to the
>original
>setting (30FPS), and try playing back the Cuelist using the SMPTEOut module
>this
>time. If your SMPTEOut module is as inaccurate as mine, once again you should
>notice a drift occuring.

Are you saying you are running the audio out of the Amiga into the SMPTE
input and using SMPTEout to drive Studio16?  If this is the case then I
don't think you will ever get that to work accurately.

Jacob
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From [e-mail] Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:30:03 +0500
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> = Kenny Nilsen's words on 24-Jan-98:
>Oukidouki, let's try to get back on track. I have a few requests for some
>of the people who has been forward on the list:

>- Greenboy: I have contacted Stephan Kost (SoundFX) and a guy called Doug
>Shannon. If you like I can channel further contact to you. The contact I am
>trying to establish with them is related to support and information
>(respectivly).

greenboy here, reporting for duty! Send 'em my way. Must warn you: my 516 is
currently on loan. But I'm up for anything I can do to further the cause.

>Greenboy also mentioned a brainstorming so why don't we have one. If you>

Yeah, including talking about the larger digital audio issues that exist.

FI, I brought up higher-bit sampling awhile back. Geez, all of a sudden guys
are talking 32-bit. That is like using 40-bit to store (true-color) IFFs.
You have to have some incredible hardware to get 32-bit to be any more
useful than what I consider to be practical: 20-bit or 24-bit. Thank god we
aren't discussing 96MHz sampling rates. [Oops!]

>Ok, I'll start off with some ideas of my own:

>- Filter processing. Lowpass, highpass, bandpass and notch filtering. I have
>already made the FPU/asm routines (almost realtime on my 030/25 so it should
>be capable of doing realtime on a 040/25 or better), but need a gui and AHI
>interface...

Parametric is derigueur, yes, no?

>please append the list. Just have in mind that modules that interface with
>Studio 16 directly will be unlikely to have maded so consider all projects
>to be external programs to accompny Studio 16.

Ouch.

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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Hi, Maurizio. I hope to be a future customer of yours. But I do have a few
questions.

>On this theme, I'd like to clarify (this may interest at least
>"that" part of the audience) that an AHI driver for the AD516
>would NOT allow to use ProStation or AudioLab16 with the Sunrize
>hardware.

>AudioLabs' products require AudioLabs' drivers. They support
>every major ZII/ZIII board (including those not supported
>by AHI) both in analog and digital modes plus analog motherboard
>output.

I'm curious why. I'm a real big fan of system-wide support and device-
independent support. I think it is healthier for the platform, and for
developers.

>We don't make drivers, the hardware manifacturers do after we
>reach a commercial agreement. As for the development itself,
>it's just a matter of an hour of work, on average, with our
>supervision.
>Unfortunatly the AD516 is the only ZII board without a driver
>as there isn't a manifacturer we can discuss with.

So, have you with Ben Fuller here at the ml? Or any other former Sunrizers?

>(I'm not stating that AudioLabs will never support AHI, simply
>there are no plans as of today).

I am imagining, just imagining that an AHI driver for the AD516 exists. What
would be the advantages and disadvantages of your software using it? As
opposed to its own drivers.

--
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    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
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From [e-mail] Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:26:24 -0800
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From: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
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On 23-Jan-98, Serge A Guilbert wrote:


>If we use the SMPTEOut as our SMPTE Master (or we use the
>reel-to-reel R-8; it's the same thing, relatively speaking,
>because the R-8 is striped using the SMPTEOut), then the sequencer
>(B&P) will play along at that slightly slower speed.

I wonder if it is the same thing...in that, the way S16 -hooks internally- to
the time code of S/O (SMPTE Output) may be different than the way
S16 -hooks- to time code it hears coming in it's smpte sync input.

I am beginning to look at the inter relationships between - -
  1. the cuelist transport (internal sync)
  2. the SMPTE Generator   (internal sync)
  3. the SMPTE Output
  4. the SMPTE sync input on the back of the AD516
  5. the time code -hooks- B&P uses


>In our example, this means that the MIDI drum track which we've
>programmed in B&P will also play slightly slower than it really
>should. OK, now it's time to lay down an analog bass track, an
>acoustic guitar, and a lead vocal, all onto the Studio16 Cuelist,
>but, using this slowed down MIDI drum track (or click track,or
>metronome) as a reference, albeit a faulty one. You can see what's
>going to happen. All the analog tracks will be recorded onto the
>Cuelist in synch with that reference.

>If we try to use the Internal SMPTE Generator, which is an accurate
>source,

(not sure about that leap)

>to play back our freshly recorded Cuelist tracks, we will find that
>the tracks will start to drift (maybe after a few minutes). This is
>because, this time, the incoming SMPTE code is the correct speed,
>and a result, B&P will convert the code at the correct speed (ie
>slightly faster than before). This means that the MIDI drum beat
>will also be generated slighly faster. No big deal right? Wrong.
>Don't forget, Studio16 will NOT play back its analog tracks
>slightly faster. It will either play at the sampled speed, or it
>won't (let's assume 44.1Khz). It doesn't dynamically convert >on-the-fly.

>From my memory of 3 plus years ago when I went round and round with
Todd Modjeski about this, it seems to me that there is some
calculating the S16 does everytime you start a playback in the
cuelist.

I think it is standard in the industry (direct-to-disk-recording) to
calculate the sample rate x start time x length of the sample(s) to
determine where and when something should play.  This should make
discrete sample events start at there smpte time accurately, but
doesn't help long samples adjust there playback if time code is
playing back at a different rate than when they were recorded.
The SMPTE Lock in the Preferences I thought was an attempt to keep
S16 in a constant or almost constant update mode as far as where S16
was in relation to any external sync source.

I know that S16 can only playback one sample rate at a time, but I
thought there was some recalc done everytime according to the above
mentioned equation to account for some varience in time code speed.
Of course there is a point where S16 is not going to be able to keep
up or back.

>How do I know the Internal SMPTE is accurate? Well, using the same
>test described above, I've compared it with the output of my
>rack-mount Fostex 4010 SMPTE Generator (Rock-steady, remember?
> :>)   ). Very accurate. Very compatible. No drift . No problems.

was this comparison done with the 4010 recorded to tape and played
back or generated directly?

>I'm guessing here, but it's my impression that the Internal SMPTE
>Generator will always be inherently more accurate than the SMPTEOut
>Module, because the Internal SMPTE uses the AD516 hardware (and
>crystal). The SMPTEOut, on the other hand, is a stand-alone s/w
>module which doesn't even require the presence of a hardware card.

Are you sure about that?  When Sunrize released SMPTEout I thought
the issue of accuracy was top of their list and designed with that
idea in mind.  If it was so obvious that the design as you describe
of Internal SMPTE was so much more (logically) accurate, why did
they not use AD516 in some way to generate it?  I don't think it was
so that they could sell it to more people because it was not
dependant upon having an AD516.


Once again I am not saying you are wrong,  it's just not all adding
up for me yet.

>SMPTE source is not really standard (compared to the rest of the
>world),

Is there any type of SMPTE analyzer device that could check the
integrity/accuracy of SMPTE code?


>don't screw around with your SMPTE source.

AGREED!

>It controls everything. Maybe even the size of your paycheque.
>HA!

oooooH, a scary but wise thought.

I stayed up very late last night 5AM! testing some of these ideas
and a few others.  My results were mixed at best.  When my head is
clear....hopefully by tomorrow, I will post my observations.


Thanks Serge and Richard.  This is an area that really needs to be
cleared up.  I'm down wit it!

Please bare with my scrutiny....just looking for my own silver bullets.


                  G Mula





--
-------------------------------------------------------

Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*


--
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Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] 24 Jan 98 21:53:53 +0500
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Kenny wrote:
> Of course, it's pure logic, 32-bit has higher resolution than 16-bit and is
> closer to analog 'resolution'. But however, I disagree with /some/ of the
> approach due to a few down to earth things: a) only people in billion
> dollars or so studios can hear the difference, b) the same people are
> probably fanatic about it, c) who is gonna hear the end result and what is
> it stored at and played through ? d) what is most important of the end
> result: the content or the methode ?
All very good points. However I can hear the difference between cruddy
16 bit, and really good 16 bit. I can hear (if I strain really hard) a
tiny difference between 16 bit and 20 bit. beyond that is wasted on
me. I am somewhat fanatic (?) about it. I want the best I can get
without having to get a second mortgage. For me half the fun is
getting there so content and method are equal. These are just my
opinions, nothing more.

> Most of the cases 16-bit is more than good enough. For instance, video has a
> bandwidth approximatly 33khz and even CD-quality is overkill. More and more
> TV channels broadcast in MPEG - the quality is reduced automatically. Then,
> most people who watch this video, what sound system do they use ? That's for
> video. For sound: to squeece the quality of 32-bit the listener needs a
> pretty good amplifier and even better loudspeakers, a special built
> listening room and of course good ears.
I agree. For video applications, this is overkill. I like to have a
master that's higher quality than the final destination, though. For
audio apps, I want to make sure it's as good as I can afford to make
it.
>
> I am sure there are many legitimate reasons to use 32-bit sound (such as
> reducing integer errors etc.) and I am not against development, quite the
> contrary, but I think we should compare the weights of it all, is 32-bit
> worth the trouble when 16-bit still impress people and _most_ people won't
> hear the difference ? Of course, back in the days when digital was new I'm
> sure people said the same thing about that as I say about 32-bit sound now
> :)  But I am just trying to look at it from different angles, I am open
> myself to review my opinions if the reason can be justified. Right now I
> don't feel they are.
Right. Somewhere in-between (20 or 24 bits) is really, really good,
and attainable now. I don't think audio cards for the Amiga have to
jump all the way from 16 bit to 32 bit.


--
-Mike Masquith, Barkin' Beaver Studios, VA, USA

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On 24-Jan-98, Mike Masquith wrote:
>Kenny wrote:
>> Of course, it's pure logic, 32-bit has higher resolution than 16-bit and is
>> closer to analog 'resolution'. But however, I disagree with /some/ of the
>> approach due to a few down to earth things: a) only people in billion
>> dollars or so studios can hear the difference, b) the same people are
>> probably fanatic about it, c) who is gonna hear the end result and what is
>> it stored at and played through ?

Some fanatics may argue the under/over tones that you can't hear may affect
the ones you can. One would have to put it on a scope to find out.

>d) what is most important of the end
>> result: the content or the methode ?

>All very good points. However I can hear the difference between cruddy
>16 bit, and really good 16 bit. I can hear (if I strain really hard) a
>tiny difference between 16 bit and 20 bit. beyond that is wasted on
>me. I am somewhat fanatic (?) about it. I want the best I can get
>without having to get a second mortgage. For me half the fun is
>getting there so content and method are equal. These are just my
>opinions, nothing more.

>> I am sure there are many legitimate reasons to use 32-bit sound (such as
>> reducing integer errors etc.) and I am not against development, quite the
>> contrary, but I think we should compare the weights of it all, is 32-bit
>> worth the trouble when 16-bit still impress people and _most_ people won't
>> hear the difference ? Of course, back in the days when digital was new I'm
>> sure people said the same thing about that as I say about 32-bit sound now
>> :)  But I am just trying to look at it from different angles, I am open
>> myself to review my opinions if the reason can be justified. Right now I
>> don't feel they are.
>Right. Somewhere in-between (20 or 24 bits) is really, really good,
>and attainable now. I don't think audio cards for the Amiga have to
>jump all the way from 16 bit to 32 bit.


I agree with much of the aforementioned.
Don't forget also that other things could be encrypted in the headroom
whether it be 24 or 32 bit. (MIDI for example is a 31.25 Khz signal).

I'm sure some of you guys could think of many other applications even if MIDI
sounds like a lame idea.

 . . . . Just for the sake of an interesting topic,

Brian Fields

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:32:39 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Golden Ears or Just Deep Pockets?
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 20:32:00
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Brian Fields's words on 25-Jan-98:
>Some fanatics may argue the under/over tones that you can't hear may affect
>the ones you can. One would have to put it on a scope to find out.

Here I guess that you are talking about something that, in the analog world,
power-amp and mixer designers debate: whether extended frequency-response
_way_ beyond the accepted range of human hearing is desirable, due to the
effect it has on phase linearity in the "audible" range.

Though in digital, we are concerned with aliasing, the effects of 24-pole
(or more) filtering on phase, and clock-noise interaction.

>Don't forget also that other things could be encrypted in the headroom
>whether it be 24 or 32 bit. (MIDI for example is a 31.25 Khz signal).
>I'm sure some of you guys could think of many other applications even if
>MIDI sounds like a lame idea.

This scares me a little. 8-| You have to have a pretty incredible scheme,
and a hardware design (dsp that has more horsepower) to ensure that one
signal doesn't modulate the other. Also, the number of input/output channels
and other dsp functions such as real-time mixing, eq and fx would be
compromised.

But in our incredible world someone could prove me wrong next week. If
someone isn't already designing something of that nature around a more
/powerful/ engine, I would say that they should consider it; that's a great
idea!

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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X-Message-No: 1388 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: All <[e-mail]>
Subject: DSP direct
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 14:20:00
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Hi,

I'm gonna be busy in the nearest future so if someone would like to take
over the stuff I've got on direct-to-DSP code let me know. The source is in
asm, but you will get the needed extra files.

Status: it loads DSP code fine and spend correct time on the sample
(controlled by the DSP interrupts), but no sound..

I'm not gonna work too much on this anyway since there is a little hope for
an AHI driver.


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 25 Jan 98 14:20:14 +0100
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X-Message-No: 1390 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: All <[e-mail]>
Subject: DSP direct
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 14:20:00
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Hi,

I'm gonna be busy in the nearest future so if someone would like to take
over the stuff I've got on direct-to-DSP code let me know. The source is in
asm, but you will get the needed extra files.

Status: it loads DSP code fine and spend correct time on the sample
(controlled by the DSP interrupts), but no sound..

I'm not gonna work too much on this anyway since there is a little hope for
an AHI driver.


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:28:28 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 06:28:00
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Kenny Nilsen's words on 25-Jan-98:

>I'm not gonna work too much on this anyway since there is a little hope for
>an AHI driver.

I'm not saying change your mind. I'm sure you have 25 hours of stuff to do
every day anyway. But --

I still see the possibility of an AHI driver, myself.

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:03:53 -0500
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X-Message-No: 1393 (database)
From: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver more possible now?
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 0 20:03:01
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>I'm not gonna work too much on this anyway since there is a little
>hope for an AHI driver.

Never say never. The original instigator is back online! Me.
Ben Fuller and I are conversing again about AHI for 516.
I don't know if, or what will happen yet. But I'm willing, Ben now
seems available and I can always sleep sometime next year :)

>I'm not saying change your mind. I'm sure you have 25 hours of stuff
>to do every day anyway. But I still see the possibility of an AHI
driver, myself.

Dream's not dead yet. It ain't over till the paula sings taps. My 516 is
still getting a hella'va work out evey day and if AHI comes along, I'll
give it more to do.
Personally I looking forward to a AD516 mach II some day.


troy silvey
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/4753
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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:22:01 +0500
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X-Message-No: 1394 (database)
From: Brian Fields <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Golden Ears or Just Deep Pockets?
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 11:22:00
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On 25-Jan-98, greenboy wrote:
>>Don't forget also that other things could be encrypted in the headroom
>>whether it be 24 or 32 bit. (MIDI for example is a 31.25 Khz signal).
>>I'm sure some of you guys could think of many other applications even if
>>MIDI sounds like a lame idea.

>This scares me a little. 8-| You have to have a pretty incredible scheme,
>and a hardware design (dsp that has more horsepower) to ensure that one
>signal doesn't modulate the other. Also, the number of input/output channels
>and other dsp functions such as real-time mixing, eq and fx would be
>compromised.

>But in our incredible world someone could prove me wrong next week. If
>someone isn't already designing something of that nature around a more
>/powerful/ engine, I would say that they should consider it; that's a great
>idea!

Thanks Greenboy,

As Dr. McCoy might say, "Damn it Jim I'm a musician not a doctor!" and
I've only got 24 hours a day to address a myriad of other things. I have to
keep my proirities(I'm sorry to say). I wish I could thrust my
attentions to the engineering issues on the Amiga.

It would be interesting to see what family of DSP's have inherited the
mantle of 24 bit. But as for our discussion here I was just trying to
mention the previously non-mentioned for the sake of conjecture as it
applies to the ADSP2105.

I love my little giant killer Amiga and I'm not ready to buy another platform
yet. And I have a sneaking suspicion that some Amiga die hard engineers at
Gateway haven't given up on it either (to say the least).

Regards,

Brian Fields

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:48:29 -0000
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X-ReplyTo-No: 1393 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1395 (database)
From: Don Cox <[e-mail]>
To: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver more possible now?
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 21:48:00
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On 25-Jan-00, troy silvey wrote:

>Personally I looking forward to a AD516 mach II some day.

Realistically, it would have to be a PCI bus card, not Zorro3. By the time it
happens, there will be Amiga motherboards with the PCI bus, and the main thing
is to make sure there is Amiga software for it as well as NT Alpha or
whatever.
The first version of the BoXeR motherboard has a couple of live ISA slots, but
the second version, in about 12 months, will use PCI. Micronik have a Zorro
board for their towers with live PCI slots. The InsideOut is an Amiga on a
card to fit a PCI slot, probably available in about 6 months time.

--
Don Cox
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:56:14 -0000
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X-Message-No: 1396 (database)
From: Don Cox <[e-mail]>
To: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver more possible now?
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 21:56:00
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Ben -

Do you have any idea how the S16 SMPTE triggers playing on the PAR card?
Presumably there is a message port or something.
I am wondering whether it would be possible to trigger the PAR direcly from
Bars&Pipes to play at a given time (SMPTE), for setups with a PAR but no S16.
It would be a tool or accessory for B&P. You can run an ARexx script from B&P,
but a direct trigger would be more solid.
On the PAR, you click the SMPTE button and then set a time. When the S16 gets
to that time, the PAR starts playing.

Don Cox
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:32:54 -0800
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X-Message-No: 1397 (database)
From: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 List <[e-mail]>
Subject: Big Blocks
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 22:32:01
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Help!!

Does anyone know if you can do a recover files on a partition
using the BigBlocks format?

I did a session a few days ago, finished the music, sent out the
master,  deleated the files to make room for new stuff,  and now
discovered the master has some problems I hadn't heard.

Anybodies immediate help will gain you instant favor and gratitude!


Gary

------------------------------------------------------------------

Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:42:53 -0800
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X-Message-No: 1398 (database)
From: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver more possible now?
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 22:42:01
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Don recently wrote:
>Do you have any idea how the S16 SMPTE triggers playing on the PAR card?
>Presumably there is a message port or something.
>I am wondering whether it would be possible to trigger the PAR direcly from
>Bars&Pipes to play at a given time (SMPTE), for setups with a PAR but no
S16.
>It would be a tool or accessory for B&P. You can run an ARexx script from
B&P,
>but a direct trigger would be more solid.
>On the PAR, you click the SMPTE button and then set a time. When the S16
gets
>to that time, the PAR starts playing.

If I remember correectly, the PAR is monitoring SMPTE timecode using
the Studio16 SmpteSink API.  The PAR connects to Studio16 and watches
the timecode, triggering video playback at the appropriate time.

To provide the same functionality from B&P would require creating
a Studio16 placebo that provides the SMPTE APIs.  To make things
more complicated, there are two sets of smpte api functions -- pre 3.01
and 3.01.  I don't know which one the PAR uses.

Doable, but not practical.

Ben.



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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:54:06 -0800
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X-Message-No: 1399 (database)
From: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Big Blocks
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 22:54:00
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Gary recently wrote:
>Does anyone know if you can do a recover files on a partition
>using the BigBlocks format?
>

DiskSalv 3 or 4 (I can't remember) should be able to recover the
files if they have not been overwritten.

Ben.





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X-Message-No: 1400 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 23:03:01
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greenboy wrote:

>Kenny Nilsen's words on 25-Jan-98:

>>I'm not gonna work too much on this anyway since there is a little hope for
>I'm not saying change your mind. I'm sure you have 25 hours of stuff to do
>every day anyway. But --
>I still see the possibility of an AHI driver, myself.

Hm, email is INDEED an evil thing :) little = "I see a small hope" or "it
looks like we might get an AHI anyway". I am positive to it! :)


- Kenny

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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver more possible now?
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 23:08:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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troy silvey wrote:

>>I'm not gonna work too much on this anyway since there is a little
>>hope for an AHI driver.
>Never say never. The original instigator is back online! Me.

Hi Troy,

please see message to greenboy :)

>Dream's not dead yet.

Agreed. Sorry guys for the misunderstanding. I'll reword it here:

As it seem that Ben eventually will make an AHI driver I see no point for me
to spend much work on the direct-DSP code right now since I will be quite
busy in near future. Therfore, if someone is interrested in look at what I
have got so far just take contact and I'll send it. Besides, I will have to
learn AD21xx assembler, buy a PC, buy Analoge Devices developer package,
create Amiga interfacing etc.

I hope that was better ?? :)


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 25 Jan 98 23:08:47 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver more possible now?
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 23:08:00
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troy silvey wrote:

>>I'm not gonna work too much on this anyway since there is a little
>>hope for an AHI driver.
>Never say never. The original instigator is back online! Me.

Hi Troy,

please see message to greenboy :)

>Dream's not dead yet.

Agreed. Sorry guys for the misunderstanding. I'll reword it here:

As it seem that Ben eventually will make an AHI driver I see no point for me
to spend much work on the direct-DSP code right now since I will be quite
busy in near future. Therfore, if someone is interrested in look at what I
have got so far just take contact and I'll send it. Besides, I will have to
learn AD21xx assembler, buy a PC, buy Analoge Devices developer package,
create Amiga interfacing etc.

I hope that was better ?? :)


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] 25 Jan 98 23:03:57 +0100
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X-Message-No: 1404 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 23:03:01
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greenboy wrote:

>Kenny Nilsen's words on 25-Jan-98:

>>I'm not gonna work too much on this anyway since there is a little hope for
>I'm not saying change your mind. I'm sure you have 25 hours of stuff to do
>every day anyway. But --
>I still see the possibility of an AHI driver, myself.

Hm, email is INDEED an evil thing :) little = "I see a small hope" or "it
looks like we might get an AHI anyway". I am positive to it! :)


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:17:30 -0800
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X-Message-No: 1405 (database)
From: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
To: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Big Blocks
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 00:17:00
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On 25-Jan-98, Ben Fuller wrote:

>Gary recently wrote:
>>Does anyone know if you can do a recover files on a partition
>>using the BigBlocks format?
>>

>DiskSalv 3 or 4

Fantastic!  Some of the files were written to a Jaz drive with a
standard format,  Quarter back tools spent around an hour to
catalogue all files.  I am pretty sure QB doesn't work on my BigBlock
partitions, hence my panic.

I'll get DiskSalv right away.

Somehow I knew you would have some info on this.



Thanks Ben....anytime I can return the favor!



Gary







--
------------------------------------------------------------------

Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:23:03 -0500
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X-Message-No: 1406 (database)
From: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver more possible now?
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 0 00:23:00
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>>Personally I looking forward to a AD516 mach II some day.

>Realistically, it would have to be a PCI bus card, not Zorro3. By the

Did Ben mention that sunrize had proto type PCI sound card
with software in the works when then decided to close shop? It's a
long shot, but what if that proto could be resurected for the PCI
ami clones we hope to see?

troy
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From [e-mail] Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:34:16 -0500
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From: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Golden Ears or Just Deep Pockets?
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 0 00:34:00
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>(MIDI for example is a 31.25 Khz signal)

MIDI is actually a serial baud rate and not a khz audio signal.
But now that you mention it, It sounds like a good ideal to
update this very old standard. No reason midi info couldn't be carried
on an sample output just like audio. It would eliminate all these
pesty midi cables all over the place. In/out/through/smpte and all
other timing/ data codes could run on a single line to each unit.
Ok where do I pick up my patent form?

troy

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From [e-mail] Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:48:51 -0600
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From: CMM <[e-mail]>
To: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver more possible now?
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 00:48:01
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On 25-Jan-00, troy silvey wrote:
>>>Personally I looking forward to a AD516 mach II some day.

>>Realistically, it would have to be a PCI bus card, not Zorro3. By the

>Did Ben mention that sunrize had proto type PCI sound card
>with software in the works when then decided to close shop? It's a
>long shot, but what if that proto could be resurected for the PCI
>ami clones we hope to see?

Speaking of Ben, perhaps he could tell us just who owns the rights
to the AD516, AD1012 and the software. Apparently, no one know.
Perhaps he does???? Ben???

>troy
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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:03:48 +0500
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X-Message-No: 1409 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Undelete on BigBlocks partition
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 13:03:00
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Haven't been there lately, but I believe Aminet is up & running; definitely
some of the partial & mirror sites. Util/disk or something like that or
search using "undelete file disk utility" or some of those keywords.

In the next hour or less I will have more for you.

There is pruning twigs, and then there is sawing down the wrong redwood. ;^/

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:04:16 -0000
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From: Don Cox <[e-mail]>
To: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver more possible now?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 01:04:00
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On 25-Jan-00, troy silvey wrote:

>Did Ben mention that sunrize had proto type PCI sound card
>with software in the works when then decided to close shop? It's a
>long shot, but what if that proto could be resurected for the PCI
>ami clones we hope to see?
Sounds good, but wouldn't there be newer chips around now? And who would have
the rights to the design?
--
Don Cox
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 23:59:08 -0000
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X-Message-No: 1411 (database)
From: Don Cox <[e-mail]>
To: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver more possible now?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 00:59:00
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On 25-Jan-98, Ben Fuller wrote:
>Don recently wrote:
>>Do you have any idea how the S16 SMPTE triggers playing on the PAR card?
>>Presumably there is a message port or something.


>Doable, but not practical.
Thanks. That info will save a lot of wasted time.
The next thing is to check out the ARExx method and see if it will do.
--
Don Cox
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:41:08 -0800
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From: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] DSP direct, AHI Driver more possible now?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 01:41:00
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CMM recently wrote:
>Speaking of Ben, perhaps he could tell us just who owns the rights
>to the AD516, AD1012 and the software. Apparently, no one know.


Hmmm was it:
    "If I told you, I'd have to kill you"
or
    "If I told you, They'd have to kill me"

Why would you or anyone else knowing that information be a good idea?
What useful purpose would be served?  Do you think whomever owns
those rights would enjoy being harrassed?  There isn't even a remote
chance that those SunRize products will ever be resurrected, in any
form, period.   Remember, the Amiga is NOT a viable commercial platform.

Ben.

    "If the Amiga were a star, it would now be a white dwarf."






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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:50:01 +0500
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X-Message-No: 1413 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] UNDELETE and BigBlocks
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 13:50:00
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Griemes has Ami-Back Tools, I don't know if he kept current on it or not.
I believe v1.04 (06/23/930 is the last. Disable any disk-caching
(Hypercache?). Use the SCSI Search utility of Ami-Back Tools. If it can
return the proper information about your BigBlocks partition, the 9-1-1
module *should* be able to save your files as long as those areas of the
disk have not been written to yet.

Be cautious and restore to another drive if you are able. If there are
several versions of the same file-name it can handle that. If worse comes
to worst, the Reviver module can undelete on that Volume.

In the meanwhile, browse the web for dealers in your area. Seems like
QuikPak had quite a few, though many could be pretty Toaster-related.
Need any URLs for mail-order houses? DiskSalv shoul be pretty stocked.
The publisher has a site, I believe it is Intangible Assets.

I will check around too, and Ami-Back tools is pretty great to use. Think I
have run it from floppy as well as hard drive before, so I should be able to
walk you through that. QBTools, too damn old.

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:10:23 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] BigBlocks UNDELETE
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 14:10:00
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I don't know if it works, but even DiskSalv2 supports BigBlocks. I got it
off either Aminet or some coverdisk. Never used it. Ami-Back Tools manual
indicates that it can; seem to remember doing this once when I ran a bunch
of comparative DiskSpeed tests using 512, 1024, 2048, 4096 and 8092 block-
size formatted drive.

Redwood lumberjacks should wear suspenders _and_ belts  >;-[

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:58:37 +0500
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X-Message-No: 1415 (database)
From: Brian Fields <[e-mail]>
To: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Golden Ears or Just Deep Pockets?
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 15:58:00
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On 26-Jan-00, troy silvey wrote:
>>(MIDI for example is a 31.25 Khz signal)

>MIDI is actually a serial baud rate and not a khz audio signal.
>But now that you mention it, It sounds like a good ideal to
>update this very old standard. No reason midi info couldn't be carried
>on an sample output just like audio. It would eliminate all these
>pesty midi cables all over the place. In/out/through/smpte and all
>other timing/ data codes could run on a single line to each unit.
>Ok where do I pick up my patent form?

>troy

Yeah, I knew it was a reach but I thought I might get some synapses
opened up in that direction.

Software midi converter using a CD as a source. Hm-m-m-m-......

Oh well. I don't wnt to get too far off the AD516/S16 topic.

BTW; I heard that the GMPlay software in Aminet uses a routine to play
14 bit using two 8 bit sound channels on the Amiga. I haven't looked
at it but I'm about to. Similar to my thoughts on this by using two
AD516's. Any thoughts guys? This might also be incentive for someone
to do some more development that may not be as difficult as thought.

Am I thinking too much? Why do idea merchants never get paid? LOL

TFN,

Brian Fields

[e-mail]


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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:53:06 -0800
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From: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] UNDELETE and BigBlocks
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 02:53:00
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Thanks Dave,

I have an order in right now with Safe Harbor for a 4gig drive.
I think I'll add DiskSalv to it.  Hopefully they can get it here
by Tuesday.



--
------------------------------------------------------------------

Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:01:16 +0500
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X-Message-No: 1419 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] BigBlock Undelete Dealers
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 15:01:00
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Someone should have a copy of Ami-Back Tools or DiskSalv!

Local Dealers or Related Businesses
-----------------------------------
Computer Concepts
18001 Bothell-Everett Hwy, Suite 0
Bothell WA 98012
[phone]

The Great Escape
9227 Montgomery
Spokane WA 99206
[phone] voice/fax

Amiga Northwest Studio
Bothell -- 206-488-5664

Envision PC Consulting
Lynnwood -- 206-469-6775

MS Digital
Edmonds -- 206-742-7051

Omni International
Seattle -- 206-217-0607

Productive Computer Systems
Kirkland -- 206-820-6440

Spectral Multimedia
Bellevue -- 206-451-4075

Tape Duplication Supply
Kent -- 206-852-1074 -- See URL below

JW's Lil Shoppe (had to add this; I talk to him on a ML)
Walla Walla -- 509-525-5582

Mail Order
----------
http://www.antigravity.com/
http://www.infinet.com/~comquick/nonjava.htm
http://www.devineinc.com/
http://www.dvdirect.com/
http://nrex.net/dimensions/
http://www.sportheadcam.com/mediaquest/index.htm -- THIS IS THE ONE IN KENT
http://www.paxtron.com/
http://www.randomize.com/
http://www.sharbor.com./amiga/index.html
http://www.softhut.com/
http://www.visionsoft.com/


*Hopefully*, some of those twigs are *olive-branches*!

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:18:38 -0500
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From: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Buying the technology
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 0 03:18:00
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>Why would you or anyone else knowing that information be a good idea?
>What useful purpose would be served?  Do you think whomever owns
>those rights would enjoy being harrassed?  There isn't even a remote
>chance that those SunRize products will ever be resurrected, in any
>form, period.

But why would they refuse to sell unwanted ami techno data to an
interested party? I don't think we're talking about begging for freebies
here, but a ligitimate bussiness interest. To pay $$$ for it would not
be harrasment would it? And what about the 516 specs?
It's still a great card and it would still sell too. No R&D,
just sell the current card design. If AHI happens, then it definitly
would
sell again. Your right about the useful purpose though. That sunrize PCI
design may have been left in such a state that it would be better to
start
from scratch. But if that's the way it happens, It will be a couple of
years
before I'll be able to retire B&P and the 516 for the next ami
generation.

>Remember, the Amiga is NOT a viable commercial platform.

Yeah, go ahead piss in our cheerios. Everyone else does. :)
I'll simply add a "...YET" to the end of that sentence.

>    "If the Amiga were a star, it would now be a white dwarf."

If microsoft were a star, it would be a black hole. Ask all the data
it has quarked over these past years.

troy

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:13:01 -0800
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-ReplyTo-No: 1414 (There are no more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1421 (database)
From: Floyd Diebel <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] BigBlocks UNDELETE
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 03:13:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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On 25-Jan-98, greenboy wrote:
>I don't know if it works, but even DiskSalv2 supports BigBlocks. I got it

i have found that neither disksalv nor quaterback tools seems to work.  the
only utility i've found to work consistently is a prog called recovery.  it's
saved my butt more than once.  i don't know if it's on aminet - i got it off
of some cover disk along the way.

--
[e-mail]
a/v composition and engineering.

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From [e-mail] 25 Jan 98 18:41:13 -0800
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X-Message-No: 1423 (database)
From: C. Davey Utter <[e-mail]>
To: Brian Fields <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Studio16 HELP
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 03:41:00
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Folks,

I  have  just reformatted my HD to increase the block size from 512 to 1024.  Ever
since  the  reformat,  everytime  I put Studio16 into RECORD the program locks up.
Anybody got any guidance for me?



<tsb>25-Jan-98 18:38:58
--
------------ C. Davey Utter - Limping along with an A2000/68060 ------------
------------------ Member of Team AMIGA-w/128megs 'o Ram ------------------
------------ Miami 2.1p, Thor 2.5a, IBrowse 1.12a, Termite 1.30 ------------
--
       Mailto:[e-mail]  http://www.linkline.com/personal/cdutter/
--
<tsb>


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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:40:07 -0800
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X-Message-No: 1424 (database)
From: Floyd Diebel <[e-mail]>
To: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Buying the technology
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 03:40:00
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On 25-Jan-00, troy silvey wrote:

>>    "If the Amiga were a star, it would now be a white dwarf."

>If microsoft were a star, it would be a black hole. Ask all the data
>it has quarked over these past years.

actually, i think the amiga would be more akin to a "red giant" burning
out it's last embers.

anyways, an AHI driver would prove very useful indeed.  i'd pay.

--
[e-mail]
a/v composition and engineering.

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:29:39 +0500
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X-ReplyTo-No: 1416 (There are no more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1425 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] UNDELETE and BigBlocks
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 15:29:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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>I have an order in right now with Safe Harbor for a 4gig drive.
>I think I'll add DiskSalv to it.  Hopefully they can get it here
>by Tuesday.

My new 4.3gig EIDE MAxtor kicks butt, for a non-ultrascsiwide. Costco $229
BEFORE $30 rebate.
--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:09:27 +0500
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X-Message-No: 1426 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: C. Davey Utter <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Studio16 HELP
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 16:09:00
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C. Davey Utter's words on 26-Jan-98:
>I have just reformatted my HD to increase the block size from 512 to 1024.
>Ever since the reformat, everytime I put Studio16 into RECORD the program
>locks up. Anybody got any guidance for me?

Hi.

Tried this myself several years ago after running a series of DiskSpeed
tests. Can't remember what I concluded, but went back to letting BigBlocks
do it. Better ask the author of BigBlocks <grin>. Ben, does it feel like
mailbomb yet?

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Sat, 24 Jan 1998 21:30:13 -0600
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X-Message-No: 1427 (database)
From: CMM <[e-mail]>
To: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Buying the technology
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 04:30:00
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On 25-Jan-00, troy silvey wrote:
>>Why would you or anyone else knowing that information be a good idea?
>>What useful purpose would be served?  Do you think whomever owns
>>those rights would enjoy being harrassed?  There isn't even a remote
>>chance that those SunRize products will ever be resurrected, in any
>>form, period.

What if I or someone else wanted to purchase said products. Obviously,
they don't want it nor do they have any need for it. So whats the
problem...do they just want to sit on it and act foolish?




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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:05:50 +0500
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1429 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Studio SEVENTEEN vs Thirty-Something and counting
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 17:05:01
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: poster
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Don Cox's words on 26-Jan-98:
>Realistically, it would have to be a PCI bus card, not Zorro3. By the time
>it happens, there will be Amiga motherboards with the PCI bus, --snip--
>BoXeR motherboard second version, in about 12 months, will use PCI. Micronik
>have a Zorro board for their towers with live PCI slots. The InsideOut is an
>Amiga on a card to fit a PCI slot, probably available in about 6 months

Yep, that's where it needs to go. Preferably it will have Zorro-like
auto-config support, not Windozzze Plug&PRAY ;)

    {"Thats why -- PCI! "Thats why -- PCI!"} -- ®greenboy


Brian Fields earlier:
>>>Don't forget also that other things could be encrypted in the headroom
greenboy (that's me!) earlier:
>>This scares me a little. 8-| You have to have a pretty incredible scheme
Brian Fields's words on 25-Jan-98:
>As Dr. McCoy might say, "Damn it Jim I'm a musician not a doctor!" and
>I've only got 24 hours a day to address a myriad of other things. I have to
>keep my proirities (I'm sorry to say). I wish I could thrust my

Brian, I just don't sleep, and since I lent out my AD516 card -- I have
plenty of time to read technical journals & docs at the same time I'm
playing bass in a little band while raising 5 children, and filling in for
Buckaroo Banzai when they need a brain-surgeon  ;-D

>BTW; I heard that the GMPlay software in Aminet uses a routine to play 14
>bit using two 8 bit sound channels on the Amiga. I haven't looked at it but
>I'm about to. Similar to my thoughts on this by using two AD516's

Not to disparage the AD516 design, it wasn't meant for this, but to actually
get higher-bit performance a break-out box for the inputs and outputs would
probably be neccessary and way more expensive ADCs and DACs and digital i/o
etc. And Thirty-Something-bit is not a realistic audio resolution. 18, 20,
24 are. Just ask anyone who owns a Mac ;] Actually I am serious here though.
If you have 2 AD516s the best use is to run them for the extra ins and outs,
and if in two computers, wider bandwidth to harddrives and bus, and more
flexibility.


Ben Fuller 26-Jan-98:
>>Why would you or anyone else knowing that information be a good idea?
>>What useful purpose would be served?  Do you think whomever owns
>>those rights would enjoy being harrassed?  There isn't even a remote
>>chance that those SunRize products will ever be resurrected, in any
>>form, period.

Altruists everywhere these days . . . But we are an incorrigible bunch,
aren't we?  ;^/

troy silvey's words on 26-Jan-00: *<---MILLENIUM PROXIMITY EFFECT, TROY? ;)*
>But why would they refuse to sell unwanted ami techno data to an interested
>party? -snip- legitimate business interest. To pay $$$ for it would not be
>harrasment would it? And what about the 516 specs? It's still a great card
>and it would still sell too. No R&D, just sell the current card design.
>If AHI happens --

--or if Maurizio's company gets a driver happening . . . Really though, I
don't see the reason to produce more AD516s unless the whole venture is
extremely cost-effective. Then the next one /could/ be bundled as
*Studio Seventeen.*  <jeez>

Just philosophically, on the platforms that sell big, PCI is a standard.
Should be able to support a PCI card from any platform, provided that a
driver is designed for it and the Amiga. Then, any software that supports a
system-wide driver standard can address any PCI card. This is pretty old
news everywhere else. But the Dead Commodore never got it.

>> Remember, the Amiga is NOT a viable commercial platform.
>Yeah, go ahead piss in our cheerios. Everyone else does. :)
>I'll simply add a "...YET" to the end of that sentence.

Definitely. But any developer needs some key things to keep his overhead
low. Then think of the _Amiga_ like a specialty Bread Shop. We are not
competing with the MegaBakery that is putting that foul-tasting white bread
in every supermarket in the country. But we /are/ buying some of our
ingredients from the same supplier. {"That's why -- PCI! That's why --
PCI!"}

>> "If the Amiga were a star, it would now be a white dwarf."
>If microsoft were a star, it would be a black hole. Ask all the data
>it has quarked over these past years.

As long as it gives light and warmth, some of us probably will not
permanently migrate. Why does it have to be one or the other?

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:09:57 -0800
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From: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Buying the technology
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 05:09:01
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>But why would they refuse to sell unwanted ami techno data to an
>interested party?

What would it cost them to sell the information?  Time is money... and
lawyers are notorious for billing every second.

Besides, anyone with the resources required to buy the information
and bring a product to market would surely have the resources to find
out who owns the technology.

>And what about the 516 specs?
>It's still a great card and it would still sell too. No R&D,

Have you looked at an AD516 lately?  Count the chips... now count
the holes.  See that little green wire that goes from the zorro connector
to that little chip in the socket there... all those things are costly.
Not only must the boards be built, but then they have to be tested
(burn-in) for awhile.  The boards that don't work have to go through
troubleshooting, costing even more.

>just sell the current card design. If AHI happens, then it definitly
>would sell again.

How many units?  100, 1000, 10000?  At what price?  Would you
pay $1000 for it?  An AWE-64 Gold sells for about $200 nowadays,
and that's with four megabytes of RAM and a digital out.

What kind of distribution would the product be sold through?  Go
direct?  Now you have to handle tech support and training...

I don't think anyone with those types of financial resources is going
to be happy with dwindling, fragmented market that "Amiga" has to
offer... They're going to be fishing in a larger pond....

>>Remember, the Amiga is NOT a viable commercial platform.
>
>I'll simply add a "...YET" to the end of that sentence.


And I'll add "there are people who mistakenly think it can become one."

>If microsoft were a star, it would be a black hole. Ask all the data
>it has quarked over these past years.


Nah, If Microsoft was a star, it would be a large blue-white in its early
20s.


Ben.





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From [e-mail] Sat, 24 Jan 1998 22:42:39 -0600
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From: CMM <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: Buying the technology
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On 25-Jan-98, Ben Fuller wrote:
>>But why would they refuse to sell unwanted ami techno data to an
>>interested party?

>What would it cost them to sell the information?  Time is money... and
>lawyers are notorious for billing every second.

>Besides, anyone with the resources required to buy the information
>and bring a product to market would surely have the resources to find
>out who owns the technology.

Funny....the good people at AntiGravity tried for over a year
to find out who owned the technology and finally gave up!



>>And what about the 516 specs?
>>It's still a great card and it would still sell too. No R&D,

>Have you looked at an AD516 lately?  Count the chips... now count
>the holes.  See that little green wire that goes from the zorro connector
>to that little chip in the socket there... all those things are costly.
>Not only must the boards be built, but then they have to be tested
>(burn-in) for awhile.  The boards that don't work have to go through
>troubleshooting, costing even more.

>>just sell the current card design. If AHI happens, then it definitly
>>would sell again.

>How many units?  100, 1000, 10000?  At what price?  Would you
>pay $1000 for it?  An AWE-64 Gold sells for about $200 nowadays,
>and that's with four megabytes of RAM and a digital out.

>What kind of distribution would the product be sold through?  Go
>direct?  Now you have to handle tech support and training...

>I don't think anyone with those types of financial resources is going
>to be happy with dwindling, fragmented market that "Amiga" has to
>offer... They're going to be fishing in a larger pond....

>>>Remember, the Amiga is NOT a viable commercial platform.
>>
>>I'll simply add a "...YET" to the end of that sentence.


>And I'll add "there are people who mistakenly think it can become one."

>>If microsoft were a star, it would be a black hole. Ask all the data
>>it has quarked over these past years.


>Nah, If Microsoft was a star, it would be a large blue-white in its early
>20s.


>Ben.





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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: All <[e-mail]>
Subject: CMX converting
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 06:18:00
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I was thinking of making a CMX <-> Cuelist converter myself using QMaster
since I haven't got any respons on my requests (on list and private), but I
need some information on what exactly is expected of the converting -

CMX to Cuelist:

- What timecodes should be converted and why ? Should the recin/out be set
up with an empty Entry ?

- How should the dissolves be used - should they be converted to fade-ins on
the actual entry ?

- Reels - should there be made a database for reel numbers so thew script
can find the reel number and insert the filename (sample) in the cuelist
when it finds it ?

Cuelist to CMX:

- Should entry start/end simply be converted to rec-in/out ?

- Should it do as with cmx-cuelist, looking in a database and exchange
filename with a reel name ?

To be honest, I have no clue what use this will have so please elaborate on
this those who can and I will try to make it.


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 26 Jan 98 06:18:29 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
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I was thinking of making a CMX <-> Cuelist converter myself using QMaster
since I haven't got any respons on my requests (on list and private), but I
need some information on what exactly is expected of the converting -

CMX to Cuelist:

- What timecodes should be converted and why ? Should the recin/out be set
up with an empty Entry ?

- How should the dissolves be used - should they be converted to fade-ins on
the actual entry ?

- Reels - should there be made a database for reel numbers so thew script
can find the reel number and insert the filename (sample) in the cuelist
when it finds it ?

Cuelist to CMX:

- Should entry start/end simply be converted to rec-in/out ?

- Should it do as with cmx-cuelist, looking in a database and exchange
filename with a reel name ?

To be honest, I have no clue what use this will have so please elaborate on
this those who can and I will try to make it.


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:49:59 -0800
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From: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Buying the technology
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 09:49:01
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>>Besides, anyone with the resources required to buy the information
>>and bring a product to market would surely have the resources to find
>>out who owns the technology.
>
>Funny....the good people at AntiGravity tried for over a year
>to find out who owned the technology and finally gave up!
>

But *why* did they want to find out who owned the technology?
Were they interested in buying the technology?  If I remember
correctly [it's been a long time] Anti-Gravity was some kind of
Value Added Reseller...  Seems pretty unusual for a VAR to
jump into the hardware business.

Maybe this is one of those quests -- where when you finally
find the answer to your question, you realize that the question
is irrelevant and the answer has no meaning.

If I recall correctly, the technology was offered to appropriate
major players at the time, but there was no interest in products
for a platform that those vendors were quickly abandoning.

Another question is:  What is the technology worth?  I worked
on a software only product that was sold for a little more than
a million dollars...  and that was for a non-exclusive deal!  Is
a hardware and software product that has a target market of
audio / video professionals worth a few million?  Are there
any Amiga hardware companies out there that can afford that?


Ben.





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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:29:57 -0600
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From: CMM <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: Buying the technology
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On 26-Jan-98, Ben Fuller wrote:
>>>Besides, anyone with the resources required to buy the information
>>>and bring a product to market would surely have the resources to find
>>>out who owns the technology.
>>
>>Funny....the good people at AntiGravity tried for over a year
>>to find out who owned the technology and finally gave up!
>>

>But *why* did they want to find out who owned the technology?

They wanted to buy the technology to produce the boards..
why else would they spend a year trying to find out?
Perhaps, you think they were on a personal quest to just
see if they could find out for the hell of it?

>Were they interested in buying the technology?  If I remember
>correctly [it's been a long time] Anti-Gravity was some kind of
>Value Added Reseller...  Seems pretty unusual for a VAR to
>jump into the hardware business.

>Maybe this is one of those quests -- where when you finally
>find the answer to your question, you realize that the question
>is irrelevant and the answer has no meaning.

They never were able to find out! They found nothing but dead ends.
Kinda like the double talk you are posting here.

>If I recall correctly, the technology was offered to appropriate
>major players at the time, but there was no interest in products
>for a platform that those vendors were quickly abandoning.

>Another question is:  What is the technology worth?  I worked
>on a software only product that was sold for a little more than
>a million dollars...  and that was for a non-exclusive deal!  Is
>a hardware and software product that has a target market of
>audio / video professionals worth a few million?  Are there
>any Amiga hardware companies out there that can afford that?

Millions of dollars...funny. It would be better to sell the stuff for
$5000.00 and be rid of it, rather than to sit on it and do
nothing with it, until it is so old it's useless. Especially, hardware
for what you consider to be a dead platform.  Yep sitting on
hardware and software that is dated anyway, now thats a
*brilliant idea*. Perhaps in a few more years they might, just
might be able to donate it to a museum or somthing.

regards,

Lee


>Ben.





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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 98 03:18:14 MST
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From: Bob Maple <[e-mail]>
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On Mon 26-Jan-1998  6:18a, [e-mail] wrote:

k> I was thinking of making a CMX <-> Cuelist converter myself using QMaster
k> since I haven't got any respons on my requests (on list and private), but
k> I need some information on what exactly is expected of the converting -

I've been a bit pressed for time but did see your brief query several days
ago.. sorry for my lack of response.

I too have some questions as to the usefulness of a CMX<->Cuelist converter,
and what exactly it should do.

k> - What timecodes should be converted and why ? Should the recin/out be set
k> up with an empty Entry ?

I would guess that in the case of CMX -> Cuelist, the important information is
record in/out which would be setup with "dummy" entries on the timeline at the
appropriate places, so that the real sample data could be plopped in.

Or, as you suggest, some type of reel->sample table which associate groups of
samples with a given reel number, so that the CMX -> Cuelist tool could create
a complete Cuelist with samples at the correct source timecodes and at the
correct Cuelist timecodes.

My main question is how people would use this tool.  Would you digitize all of
the material off your source tapes ahead of time, and then try to conform your
samples against the EDL?

k> - How should the dissolves be used - should they be converted to fade-ins
k> on the actual entry ?

The obvious way is to just have it put crossfades between clips where
applicable.

However, a perhaps more flexible method is to 'checkerboard' the audio so that
one event appears on one track, the next event appears on the track under it,
the next event back on the original track, etc., still with the appropriate
fade ins/outs on the sample.  It makes it easier to "pull tails" onto a sample
if it's not crowded by other sampls on either side.  IE:

Track 1 ->  XXXXXXXXXxxx..                     ..xxxXXXXXXXXxx.   XXXX
Track 2 ->             ..xxxXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXxxx..        XXXXX    XXXX

Then if I want to make the crossfade of the first clip on Track 2 longer, I
just pull the head of it further underneath track 1, and walla.  If they were
already cross-faded together on the same track, you'd have to go through a few
extra hoops to extend the dissolve.

k> - Reels - should there be made a database for reel numbers so thew script
k> can find the reel number and insert the filename (sample) in the cuelist
k> when it finds it ?

That was always my ultimate question.  How to associate samples with reel
numbers and timecodes!

On a somewhat related note, it would be interesting if the tool could
batch-digitize the audio files from an EDL and assemble the cuelist.  I have
machine control documentation and would find it fun to write such a beast, but
don't know how quickly I could get it accomplished (and the standard Sony
protocol is based on RS-422, not RS-232, so you have to build an RS422 to 232
converter box to even do it.)


As for Cuelist -> CMX, I do not see what practical use such a tool would have
but I'm sure someome out there has some reasons.

 :        Bob Maple          :                                             :
 :    [e-mail]      : Xerox never comes up with anything original :
 : www.dimensional.com/~bobm :                                             :


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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Bob Maple <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: CMX converting
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 13:45:01
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Bob Maple wrote:

Hi Bob,

>k> - What timecodes should be converted and why ? Should the recin/out be set
>k> up with an empty Entry ?
>I would guess that in the case of CMX -> Cuelist, the important information
>is record in/out which would be setup with "dummy" entries on the timeline at
>the appropriate places, so that the real sample data could be plopped in.

Ok. I have already made a frame script for this. I send you some stuff in
email. :-)  I would appreciate it if you would have the time to look into
it. The script that I have included can convert a CMX to a simple Cuelist
file. I take the rest in private email.


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 26 Jan 98 13:45:50 +0100
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Subject: Re: CMX converting
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Bob Maple wrote:

Hi Bob,

>k> - What timecodes should be converted and why ? Should the recin/out be set
>k> up with an empty Entry ?
>I would guess that in the case of CMX -> Cuelist, the important information
>is record in/out which would be setup with "dummy" entries on the timeline at
>the appropriate places, so that the real sample data could be plopped in.

Ok. I have already made a frame script for this. I send you some stuff in
email. :-)  I would appreciate it if you would have the time to look into
it. The script that I have included can convert a CMX to a simple Cuelist
file. I take the rest in private email.


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 98 15:18:38 PST
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From: Dave Hardy <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Doug Shannon?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 00:18:00
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- Greenboy: I have contacted Stephan Kost (SoundFX) and a guy called Doug
Shannon. If you like I can channel further contact to you. The contact I am
trying to establish with them is related to support and information

Hi Kenney,

This wouldn't by any chance be the same Doug Shannon who was customer
service rep for Sunrize Industries by any chance would it?




Dave Hardy
Dave Hardy Productions
Vancouver B.C.
Canada
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 98 16:22:15 PST
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From: Dave Hardy <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Prostation?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 01:22:00
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On this theme, I'd like to clarify (this may interest at least
"that" part of the audience) that an AHI driver for the AD516
would NOT allow to use ProStation or AudioLab16 with the Sunrize
hardware.


Hi Maurizio,

That was my biggest fear, that people were interested in the development of
a AHI driver was being urged, when programing along other lines that would
ultimately result in tools that would ultimately extend the usefulness of
Studio 16 are being oveerlooke
.


The driver that you require is what I would most like to see developed.
Could you explain how with this driver AudioLab's funtionality would
improve its funtionality with Studio 16?

I especially like the comb filter & the hum 7 noise filters you have
included in the program. I don't like the fact that there is no Arexx port
and that many of the windows cannot be resized or removed from the screen
when not needed.

I am extremely resistant to buying an Amiga program without an Areex port.
I have tried the demo AudioLabJr and like the work that you have done. When
is the projected completion date of version 3.

I've never heard of your program Prostudio, any info available?

Dave Hardy
Dave Hardy Productions
Vancouver B.C.
Canada
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 98 18:55:36 PST
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From: Dave Hardy <[e-mail]>
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Subject: SMPTEOut
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 03:55:00
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!Just finished teaching another 16mm filmmaking workshop at my studio,
using Studio 16 to do the sound editing & mixing of course. It's always
fascinating to see how students who are normally Mac & PC users love
working on Studio 16 on the Amiga.

This group didn't manage to  finish their fine cut on my 16mm editing
machine. When I told them they could finish their fine cut on my non linear
editing system (VLabMotion with MovieShop software) they were eager to see
how this would work.

Naturally I bring Movieshop's timeline up on Studio16's public screen, so
that the 2 programs operate seamless fashion as though they were a single
program.

Once the picture & audio track were fine cut on MovieShop's timeline.
Movieshop's timeline provides an excellent interface for editing all your
picture & sound in sync and is great for compositing a great many video
layers.

However Movieshop has no provision for the editing process known as
dialogue dialogue cutting. Studio16's timeline is a wonderful tool to do
dialogue cutting.

In this workshop, I was only able to scratch the surface of what could be
done with dialogue editing with Studio16, but they got feeling for powerful
Studio16 is for cleaning up the dialogue & lots of hands on experience
using Studio16.

After they split their dialogue tracks & made the improvements that time
would allow, I showed them how to do a spotting session with Studio16. They
then preceded to build their sound effect & tracks.

We ended up having built 9 tracks on this basic training, which of course
is nothing on a system that allows you to build 99 synchronous tracks.

When they learned that Studio16 & MovieShop were running on a 25MHZ 68030
in my A3000 they were astounded as experienced no problems and were eager
to know if I would rent them time on the Amiga to edit & sound mix their
films.

The SMPTE time code I used was generated by SMPTEOut 29.97 so I have to
careful not to be using this with audio houses that are using 30 frame time
code such as Pinewood Sound in Vancouver or there will be a drifting sync.

There is 30 frame 29.97 and 30 drop frame. If compatible equipment is
patched together there should be no problem.

The timecode synchronizer built in to the Sunrize cards is sufficiently
powerful that it will lock to either 29.97 or 30 fr. time code if the
Studio16 is used as the Slave in the Master/Slave relationship.

Other hardware and software may not as capable. Timecode coming from
another source than SMPTEOut would probably benefit by being put through a
device such as the Fostex 4010 which has jam sync & will provide a stable
source when there are dropouts in the
timecode.

I've used SMPTEOut with the AD1012 & AD516 my Fostex Model 80 & Model 20 my
Foxtex 4030 sychronizers Movieshop software on VLabMotion Tocatta system
and a variety of video decks. Perfect lock on all these sources. SMPTEOut
saved me from buying a Fostex 4010.

Best of luck tracking tracking down the problem, but I suspect problem lies
elsewhere than SMPTEOut. I would suspect Bars&Pipes is using true 30 frame
timecode and not the video 30 frame (29.97) rate. Then you most definitely
would experience a drift.


Dave Hardy
Dave Hardy Productions
Vancouver B.C.
Canada
[e-mail].`com

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 98 14:55:00 PST
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From: Dave Hardy <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: THANKS BEN & JAMIE
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 23:55:00
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I was in engineering, not accounting... what makes you think I have sales
numbers?

Ben.


Hi Ben,

I would like to thank you for the wonderfull software that you, Todd &
Anthony developed for us. The AD516 hardware & it's excellent Studio 16
software have made the Amiga computer the best hardware purchase that I
have ever made.

I have always considered it to be THE KILLER APP on the Amiga. I paid full
list price for the AD1012 & recieved a very generous traid in on the AD516
from Sunrize. I found the customer service excellent. Possibly due to the
excellent quality of the produc
, I never had any difficulty getting through on the phone for help.

Both Tony Shannon & Dean Tucker were extremely pleasent pleasent & helpfull
on the few occasions when I had problems with the AD1012 board (a faulty
gain control chip, always replaced & shipped quickly and free of charge.

I was dissapointed when Tony closed the company and vanished, as I would
have liked to have expressed my gratitude for this wonderfull system he
made it possible for us to have.

He certainly had every right to close the business if it was no longer
profitable for him or his interest lay elsewhere.  Many of us would have
liked to wish bim the best of luck with his future endevours.

All of us would have liked to see him reap future rewards by selling the
rights to another developer. I'm sure everyone would be glad to see Anthony
return to produce  another killer app for the Amiga should he feel so
inclined, if Gateway make the Amiga
 healthy market for developers. Enen a negative statement from Anthony
would be welcome.

If Jamie is still on the list. Thanks ever so much for the excellent manual
that you and Susan Bruner put together for us. Wonderfull hardware &
software is even more usefull when supplemented by a lavish manual with
exhaustive attention to detail.

Although Studio 16 is very intuitive & one could very easily never refer to
the manual, I have spent a great many pleasurable hours reading the manual,
gleaning every last ounce of wisdom from the information enclosed.

It is wonderful to have a manual which is actually fun to read. My manual
has been read & reread so many times that the binding completely fell
apart. I had a metal spiral binding put on by Kinkos which has extended its
usefullness for years to come.

Every os often in my spare time I brouse through the manual to see if there
isn't something that I've overlooked or forgotten. If only all Amiga
companies would but such effort into producing such a readable manual we
would all be saved a lot of greif. We
l done Jamie.


Dave Hardy
Dave Hardy Productions
Vancouver B.C.
Canada
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Sun, 25 Jan 98 15:35:31 PST
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From: Dave Hardy <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Regions Tool
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 00:35:00
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Hi Kenny,

Any chance you could email me your timeline regions tool, sounds like a
very useful extention to the editing system to me.

Dave Hardy
Dave Hardy Productions
Vancouver B.C.
Canada
[e-mail]

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From: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: Buying the technology
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>>Funny....the good people at AntiGravity tried for over a year
>>to find out who owned the technology and finally gave up!
>>
>>But *why* did they want to find out who owned the technology?
>>Were they interested in buying the technology?  If I remember
>>correctly [it's been a long time] Anti-Gravity was some kind of

Even if they were only a VAR they could own and license the product
to a hardware house or have someone built it for them.
Of course there are two stories for every side :), but I spoke with AntiG
myself and found that they were a bit bitter by there attempt to
get to Sunrize. There side says they were snubed by sunrize and
never given the chance to buy them out.

>If I recall correctly, the technology was offered to appropriate
>major players at the time, but there was no interest in products

Then what about AntiG? Was there some bad blood there?
They wanted it, but sunrize would rather kill it than give it to them?
It could happen that way.

>Another question is:  What is the technology worth?  I worked

kind of like that tootsie pop thing....we may never know.
But if it is owned by some one or a company, may be they
would be interested in an easier and more cost effective
license agreement of their own.

troy

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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: Doug Shannon?
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Dave Hardy wrote:

>This wouldn't by any chance be the same Doug Shannon who was customer
>service rep for Sunrize Industries by any chance would it?

I hope so ;)


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 26 Jan 98 15:35:52 +0100
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Dave Hardy wrote:

>This wouldn't by any chance be the same Doug Shannon who was customer
>service rep for Sunrize Industries by any chance would it?

I hope so ;)


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:43:24 -0600
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From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Buying the technology
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 15:43:00
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I don't know why a company would want to sit on technology for a "dead" computer platform either..... But I guess who ever owns the technology, has the right to if they want!!!  I don't think we should be getting angry with Ben.... And really people..... Ben was an engineer, I don't think he's the one that owns the technology! If he did, I'm sure he would just give the technology away to one of us, since he feels the Amiga isn't viable anyway.....

Gord Clink

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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:50:32 -0800
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On 25-Jan-98, Dave Hardy wrote:

>Ben.


>Hi Ben,

>I would like to thank you for the wonderfull software that you, Todd &
>Anthony developed for us. The AD516 hardware & it's excellent Studio 16
>software have made the Amiga computer the best hardware purchase that I
>have ever made.


>If Jamie is still on the list. Thanks ever so much for the excellent manual
>that you and Susan Bruner put together for us. Wonderfull hardware &
>software is even more usefull when supplemented by a lavish manual with
>exhaustive attention to detail.

Here, here.....ditto to everything Dave said in his post.



Guess I would have liked a formal goodbye from the chief.
Obviously there are things that we will never know.

I am serious though when I say that, I hope everyone who worked
at Sunrize really understands the level of dedication and
appreciation that exists in the Studio16 user base, for Sunrize
and the products they created.


Gary Mula  /member of the 103rd division of the S16 Militia.../
           / or the Rag Tag S16 Drum and Bugle Core..../




--
------------------------------------------------------------------

Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:59:20 -0800
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From: Gary Mula <[e-mail]>
To: Dave Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Doug Shannon?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 18:59:00
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>a guy called Doug Shannon.

>This wouldn't by any chance be the same Doug Shannon who was
>customer service rep for Sunrize Industries by any chance would
>it?


Kenny you asked whether or not the Doug I mentioned was Doug
Shannon.

That does sound right.

As I mentioned in my earlier post,  he handled the beta test group.
I still have many of my reports addressed to him that contained bugs
as well as ideas for ways to enhance S16.  Doug was very receptive
to new ideas.




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Gary Mula / CALLEYE Productions / The Dutchman
Singer-Songwriter / Producer
Seattle, Washington, USA
Team *AMIGA*

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From [e-mail] Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:15:49 -0500
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From: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Buying the technology
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 0 15:15:00
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>find out who owns the technology.

I guess I'm just very suprised that they are apparantly so negitive
on the subject that it would take such an effort to initiate a
contact to discuss any possibilty. I know your not permitted to say
or simply want to stay out of the mess, but I would like to ask one
clue.... is there still a company that holds the goods or an individual
who holds the patents. I'll understand if don't want to answer.

>costly. Not only must the boards be built, but then they have to be
tested
>(burn-in) for awhile.  The boards that don't work have to go through
>troubleshooting, costing even more.

This part is irrelevant. It is neccesarry for any peice of hardware made
on earth. Sure it cost to build, test and repair. But still the R&D is
already
done and collecting dust. I can tell you honestly that given simply the
scematics and firmware code to burn, that I could likely manage the rest.

>How many units?  100, 1000, 10000?  At what price?  Would you
>pay $1000 for it?  An AWE-64 Gold sells for about $200 nowadays,
>and that's with four megabytes of RAM and a digital out.

AWE-64 does not compare. I have tested one myself and ask an received
opinions from other professionals who say it sound quality is not up to
it.
I personally went with a turtle beach card that does the job very well.
But even TB cards are running in the 400+ range. Also the cost of your
components have droped dramaticly since 1993. DSP's and ram chips
can be had for fracations of what they cost 4 years ago. With out specs
and a chance to study the facts, a true estimate will never be had.
And at fisrt guess, I'd say you be at 200-400 peices in the first year if
the price could be kept in the neighborhood of a PRO, not AWE pc card.
The rest would depend on the unknown ami clones, new business and the old
faves like newtek that are back. A toaster or flier profession can always
use a pro sound card.

>What kind of distribution would the product be sold through?  Go
>direct?  Now you have to handle tech support and training...

Magazine and Local stores are doing pretty well for now. I personally
receive mail asking where to get 516's. And the tech part I've
done for the past 14 years. Including hiring, teaching and training.
If I had all the info in front of me to study, I may well agree with you.
But please don't underestimate our abiliites to get a doable project
done.

>I don't think anyone with those types of financial resources is going
>to be happy with dwindling, fragmented market that "Amiga" has to

That is not true. Ami was dead, and still fragmented, but recent
events have amiga growing, not dwindling. The future is unknown.
Not a definite grave for amiga. How well will it's market be? Much better
as long as determined interested people continue to put time money
and effort in to it. You can see it happening at the shows, internet and
ami
mags. Markets in other contries are already growing again too.
You may not have time to keep up on all the ami news out side of this
group, but it might suprise you. It has me. Even I was ready to walk
away.
But with gateway powering Ami Inc now, the game has changed.

>Nah, If Microsoft was a star, it would be a large blue-white in its
>early 20s.

Well I guess that's that. If your convinced MS deserves to run every
pc on the planet, then there is no reason to go on. But the fact you're
here says that's not true. Then why offer help to ami, but at the same
time try to warn us off to MS? Interesting mix.

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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:32:53 -0500
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From: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Buying the technology
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 17:32:01
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>be getting angry with Ben.... And really people..... Ben was an
>engineer, I don't think he's the one that owns the technology! If he

I don't think any one has gotten angry with Ben. Not that I've seen
yet any way. We're just asking a lot of questions he prefers not
to answer and he may get tired and angry at us.

troy

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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:38:26 -0500
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From: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: THANKS BEN & JAMIE
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 17:38:00
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>If Jamie is still on the list. Thanks ever so much for the excellent
>manual that you and Susan Bruner put together for us. Wonderfull
hardware &
>software is even more usefull when supplemented by a lavish manual
>with exhaustive attention to detail.

Agreed, after reading hundreds of tech manuals over ther years,
this one was one of the best books to accompany any such powerful
harware/software combo. It made diving in and making projects a
one afternoon glide. One more reason  Studio16 was an all around
master peice.

troy


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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:41:33 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] ARexx wanted, apply within
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 08:41:00
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Hi, Dave and Maurizio!

Dave Hardy's words on 26-Jan-98 in reply to Maurizio:
>>On this theme, I'd like to clarify (this may interest at least "that" part
>>of the audience) that an AHI driver for the AD516 would NOT allow to use
>>ProStation or AudioLab16 with the Sunrize hardware.

>That was my biggest fear, that people were interested in the development of
>a AHI driver was being urged, when programing along other lines that would
>ultimately result in tools that would ultimately extend the usefulness of
>Studio 16 are being oveerlooked.

I see where a company might favor a proprietary driver, ie for performance
reasons. But it would be better for the Amiga if any problems (if they
exist) in the AHI driver spec, were solved, than to have two competing
standards. A company can only benefit in the short term with exclusivity.

In the Mac world several years ago, two different companies introduced midi
extensions. One was very open to sharing, more in a public-domain spirit,
with other developers. The other had a decided proprietary slant. Much time
and dust later, nothing but grief was caused, and few people were still
capable of debate on which was better. Some of this was, of course,
political.

>I especially like the comb filter & the hum 7 noise filters you have
>included in the program.

Yeah, the most envied plug-ins from other platforms for me have always been
noise reducing. (These were also the earliest introduced.)

>and that many of the windows cannot be resized or removed from the screen
>when not needed.

Ouch. Got to use the standard OS stuff everywhere, whenever possible! And
/that/  allows all the correctly-coded patches clever people are always
coming up with to work with the software.

Right now it is stuff on Aminet that keeps the OS from being Pleistonic, in
terms of appearance and features. Whenever a developer goes proprietary,
that is the stuff that "breaks" when using things like Cybergraphics,
VisualPrefs, multi-commodities, etc.

In beta-testing for different houses, I have noticed that some houses have
a real "keep-em-down-on-the-farm" approach, in the mistaken belief that it
will make things easier for Tech Support later on. But taking programming
shortcuts usually leads to dissatisfied customers and a harried tech-support
staff. People try to use this "non-official" stuff anyway. Some of it is
great work, after all!

Occasionally we all probably have heard, "We need to take the System's
<fill-in-the-blank> over; it is the ONLY way it can be done." Then later
someone does it the right way. Early Amiga MIDI programming had many
examples of this, especially from developers on non-multitasking systems.
For a long time they didn't understand, or didn't want to, so they made
accusations that the Amiga was flawed (and they weren't just talking about
serial port issues)!

>I am extremely resistant to buying an Amiga program without an Areex port.
>I have tried the demo AudioLabJr and like the work that you have done. When
>is the projected completion date of version 3.

I hope ProStation will not be crippled. Integral full-functioning Arexx from
the very first release is a neccessity. This also makes dollars-and-sense:
the more useful ARexx scripts show up, the more "supported" the product
looks, and the more free publicity it gets.


Of cource sincerely,
--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:24:25 -0600
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From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Buying the technology
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 21:24:00
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I was referring to Lee's remarks!!  It just sounded a little angry to me!  Being angry never gets results. Esp. when dealing with someone who could help us, like Ben!!

Gord Clink
Dryden, Ontario, Canada



Lee's Reply to Ben!!

They wanted to buy the technology to produce the boards..
why else would they spend a year trying to find out?
Perhaps, you think they were on a personal quest to just
see if they could find out for the hell of it?

They never were able to find out! They found nothing but dead ends.
Kinda like the double talk you are posting here.

Millions of dollars...funny. It would be better to sell the stuff for
$5000.00 and be rid of it, rather than to sit on it and do
nothing with it, until it is so old it's useless. Especially, hardware
for what you consider to be a dead platform.  Yep sitting on
hardware and software that is dated anyway, now thats a
*brilliant idea*. Perhaps in a few more years they might, just
might be able to donate it to a museum or somthing.

regards,

Lee


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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:27:12 -0600
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From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: GUI
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 21:27:00
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Kenny, is there is plans for tools with GUI's. Not that I'm complaining, but so far, all the tools seem to be CLI based utilities, which make them not very user friendly.

Gord Clink
[e-mail]
Dryden, Ontario, Canada

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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:36:58 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
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Subject: [S16] "The Allegations Are Entirely Unfounded"
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 09:36:01
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Hi Troy!

troy silvey's words on 25&26-Jan-#00#:
>>If Jamie is still on the list. Thanks ever so much for the excellent
>>manual that you and Susan Bruner put together for us. Wonderfull hardware
>>& software is even more usefull when supplemented by a lavish manual with
>>exhaustive attention to detail.

>Agreed, after reading hundreds of tech manuals over ther years, this one
>was one of the best books to accompany any such powerful harware/software
>combo. It made diving in and making projects a one afternoon glide. One
>more reason Studio16 was an all around master peice.

Hate to get all gushy. But pretty much all the stuff on Studio16, at the
time of its release, made it "one of the Good Ones". A great interface for
AV work! Thanks to all former Sunrizers on the list, who I am hoping we can
augment with some of the rest of the team.

>>How many units?  100, 1000, 10000?  At what price?  Would you
>>pay $1000 for it?  An AWE-64 Gold sells for about $200 nowadays,
>>and that's with four megabytes of RAM and a digital out.

>AWE-64 does not compare. I have tested one myself and ask an received
>opinions from other professionals who say it sound quality is not up to it.
>I personally went with a turtle beach card that does the job very well.
>But even TB cards are running in the 400+ range. Also the cost of your
>components have droped dramaticly since 1993. DSP's and ram chips
>can be had for fracations of what they cost 4 years ago. --snip--
>A toaster or flier profession can always use a pro sound card.

The implications of independent drivers also of course include system-wide
audio support. 8-bit -- Tired, high-bit -- Wired.

>>I don't think anyone with those types of financial resources is going
>>to be happy with dwindling, fragmented market that "Amiga" has to

>That is not true. Ami was dead, and still fragmented, but recent events
>have amiga growing, not dwindling. The future is unknown. Not a definite
>grave for amiga. How well will it's market be? Much better as long as
>determined interested people continue to put time money and effort in to
>it. You can see it happening at the shows, internet and ami mags. Markets
>in other contries are already growing again too. You may not have time to
>keep up on all the ami news out side of this group, but it might suprise
>you. It has me. Even I was ready to walk away. But with gateway powering
>Ami Inc now, the game has changed.

I guess this could go back and forth forever. But the whenever someone has
said it can't (or shouldn't) be done eventually someone comes along and
proves differently.

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 98 12:25:13 MST
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From: Jamie Krutz <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: THANKS BEN & JAMIE
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 20:25:00
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dave Hardy) writes:
> Hi Ben,
>
> I would like to thank you for the wonderfull software that you, Todd &
> Anthony developed for us. The AD516 hardware & it's excellent Studio 16
> software have made the Amiga computer the best hardware purchase that I
> have ever made.

I agree. The SunRize development team did some excellent work and
it was a real thrill to see the last rev of Studio 16 take shape. I still use
my AD516 for video soundtrack work.

Ben, it's nice to see you on this list. I think I first met you at an
Amiga convention where you were selling Project D (which I eventually
purchased). I've enjoyed your contributions to Final Writer (and wish you
had stayed there long enough to finish anchored graphics, they were
lost on that without you  :^).

Your contributions to Studio 16 are much appreciated. I hope you are
doing well with your current pursuits.

> If Jamie is still on the list. Thanks ever so much for the excellent manual
> that you and Susan Bruner put together for us. Wonderfull hardware &
> software is even more usefull when supplemented by a lavish manual with
> exhaustive attention to detail.
>
> Although Studio 16 is very intuitive & one could very easily never refer to
> the manual, I have spent a great many pleasurable hours reading the manual,
> gleaning every last ounce of wisdom from the information enclosed.
>
> It is wonderful to have a manual which is actually fun to read. My manual
> has been read & reread so many times that the binding completely fell
> apart. I had a metal spiral binding put on by Kinkos which has extended its
> usefullness for years to come.
>
> Every os often in my spare time I brouse through the manual to see if there
> isn't something that I've overlooked or forgotten. If only all Amiga
> companies would but such effort into producing such a readable manual we
> would all be saved a lot of greif. We
>l done Jamie.

Thanks Dave. Susan was great to work with. I had a lot of fun
during that project bantering feature ideas back and forth with
Todd and Anthony, and some good refinements came out of that.

The current fruits of my manual laboring are available with World
Construction Set (www.QuestarProductions.com). We just released
WCS 3 for Intel/DEC Alpha. A PowerMac version is on the way.
We're also working on WCS 3 for Amiga and eventually for Unix.

Best Regards,
 -Jamie


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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:53:22 +0500
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X-ReplyTo-No: 1466 (There are no more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1467 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Jamie Krutz <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Passing on the Torch
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 10:53:00
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Hi, Jamie! Now its beginning to dawn on me all the different places I've
seen your byline.

Jamie Krutz's words on 27-Jan-98:
>Ben, it's nice to see you on this list. I think I first met you at an
>Amiga convention where you were selling Project D (which I eventually
>purchased). I've enjoyed your contributions to Final Writer (and wish you
>had stayed there long enough to finish anchored graphics, they were
>lost on that without you  :^).

Sometimes I wish programmers had better ways to pass on the torch. It seems
like there are often times when Amiga developers lose ground when
programmers leave. Someone new there may want to contribute, but they need
information or insight from the original programmer(s). [Is this thinly
veiled statement indeed transparent?]  8D<=<

>Your contributions to Studio 16 are much appreciated. I hope you are
>doing well with your current pursuits.

>The current fruits of my manual laboring are available with World
>Construction Set (www.QuestarProductions.com). We just released
>WCS 3 for Intel/DEC Alpha. A PowerMac version is on the way.
>We're also working on WCS 3 for Amiga and eventually for Unix.

Now _there_ is a World-class Herculean project!

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-ReplyTo-No: 1464 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1468 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: GUI
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 03:44:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Gord Clink wrote:

>Kenny, is there is plans for tools with GUI's. Not that I'm complaining, but
>so far, all the tools seem to be CLI based utilities, which make them not
>very user friendly.

Hi Gord,

Yes, I have plans for an all-in-one tool that will do the stuff the cli
tools do from GUI. However, I work on a project right now that will
have high pri for a while and next project on the list will be a Cuelist
render program. The cli tools are merly demo tools to show that things
work using the includes. I was also hoping to see people make use of the
includes and create tools.


regards,

- Kenny

From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:29:48 -0500
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1469 (database)
From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Announce: Audio/MIDI Technical Info On-Line
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 04:29:00
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Announce: Audio/MIDI Technical Info On-Line
-------------------------------------------

Over the past years we've been gathering technical information for
various music devices and on audio.  We've added a new section on our
website to make this information available.

It's FREE so come check it out!

   http://www.youngmonkey.ca/

>From the main page, follow the 'who nose?: reference' link or just
click on our monkey's nose to take you to the reference section.

As we get the time, we'll be adding lots more.

ENJOY!  And let us know what you think!

--

dhomas.

**********************************************************************
*                                                                    *
 *    young monkey studios     EMail:  [e-mail]        *
 *      ----------------         WWW:  http://www.youngmonkey.ca/   *
  *       dhomas trenn                                             *
  *                            Snail:  797 Mitchell Street         *
 *                                     Fredericton, NB              *
 *   Phone:  [phone]            CANADA    E3B 3S8            *
*                                                                    *
**********************************************************************

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From [e-mail] 27 Jan 98 03:44:07 +0100
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X-ReplyTo-No: 1464 (There are no more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1470 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: GUI
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 03:44:00
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Gord Clink wrote:

>Kenny, is there is plans for tools with GUI's. Not that I'm complaining, but
>so far, all the tools seem to be CLI based utilities, which make them not
>very user friendly.

Hi Gord,

Yes, I have plans for an all-in-one tool that will do the stuff the cli
tools do from GUI. However, I work on a project right now that will
have high pri for a while and next project on the list will be a Cuelist
render program. The cli tools are merly demo tools to show that things
work using the includes. I was also hoping to see people make use of the
includes and create tools.


regards,

- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Mon, 26 Jan 98 17:23:48 PST
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1471 (database)
From: Dave Hardy <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Regions Tool
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 02:23:00
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Thanks a million for the crop regions tool Kenny. I haven't had the chance
to try it yet but I'll let you know my impressions soon. Sorry a typing
error in my message to Ben & Jammie.

I typed Tony when I meant to type Anthony. Anthony Wood owns Sunrize
Industries. Why he is in hiding I've no idea, but in the absence of any
solid information some pretty wild scenarios come to mind.

Before we start the rumor mill grinding, a couple of basic checks might be
done. Has anyone looked in the Campbell California telephone directory to
see if there is a listing for an Anthony J. Wood?

How about Tim Jenson at Newtek? It's well known that Anthony was trying to
sell Tim on using the studio 16 as the Flyer audio board.  Possibly Tim
might have this info.


About a month & half before the vanishing act Anthony Wood posted a notice
in Comp.Sys.Amiga.Marketplace listing for sale of several Amiga systems,
including Video Toaster boards & AmiLink systems.

I checked the phone number against my Sunrize info & sure enough it was the
same number. Too bad it wasn't his home number. Great hardware, great
software and great manuals.

To me, Studio16 has a future even if the Amiga doesn't. To me, the
important thing is how useful is the equipment, not is it the latest model.

I don't know Anthony personally, but I would not like to see him hounded to
death by people wanting to get their hands on his technology. However a
nice anonymous posting of the code necessary for Maurizio to get a driver
for his AudioLab software would b
 nice.

I'm going to get back to you shortly with what use I can envision the CMX
converter being put to.  No use you spending a lot of time on it unless it
can be put to a practical purpose.


Dave Hardy
Dave Hardy Productions
Vancouver B.C.

-- Via DLG Pro v1.16

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From [e-mail] Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:57:50 -0600
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1472 (database)
From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Anthony Wood
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 15:57:01
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Dave Hardy Wrote:

Before we start the rumor mill grinding, a couple of basic checks might be
done. Has anyone looked in the Campbell California telephone directory to
see if there is a listing for an Anthony J. Wood?

I checked on bigfoot.com, and came up with an Anthony Wood in Cambell California.

The Address is:   [e-mail]


Could this be him?

Gord Clink
[e-mail]
Dryden, Ontario, Canada

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From [e-mail] Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:08:55 -0600
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1473 (database)
From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: More E-Mail's
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 16:08:01
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I also have Todd Modjeski's address..... it is.....

[e-mail]

I recall emailing him at this address about 2 years ago.....

Gord Clink
[e-mail]
Dryden, Ontario, Canada

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From [e-mail] Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:35:28 -0600
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X-Message-No: 1474 (database)
From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: More E-Mail's
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 16:35:00
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According to Atari Games Corp.  Todd's current addresss is.....

[e-mail]




Gord Clink
[e-mail]
Dryden, Ontario, Canada

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From [e-mail] Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:57:58 -0800
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1475 (database)
From: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 List <[e-mail]>
Subject: AHI Expectations...
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 16:57:01
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So what kinds of things would be expected of an AHI driver for Studio16?

Ben.





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From [e-mail] Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:28:04 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 06:28:00
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Gord Clink's words on 27-Jan-98:
>According to Atari Games Corp.  Todd's current addresss is.....
>[e-mail]

Hey, Gord,

Yeah, Todds old one was just that: old. Thank Atari for giving us a
forwarding address. Anyway, been in touch with Todd, betatested something he
wrote long time ago for The Other Guys.

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:26:05 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: AHI Expectations...
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 07:26:00
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Ben Fuller's words on 27-Jan-98:
>So what kinds of things would be expected of an AHI driver for Studio16?

    "Dammit Ben, I'm just a former dealer, not a software engineer!"
        {Thanks, Brian -- I think}.

But it seems to me it must be capable of providing every resource the
Studio16 software used, in both directions. If there were still more tricks
in the bag for the next release, that used calls that hadn't yet been
used in 3.01, I would say make those available too.

I don't know if other AHI drivers have embedded arexx calls (but I'm
guessing not, the sound software should be where arexx comes in, right?).
The AHI site --

    http://www.lysator.liu.se/~lcs/ahi.html

should be a place to start.


If I were to be wild and abandoned -- I would yell from every rooftop --
"PULL OUT ALL THE STOPS! ANYTHING THAT DSP -- ANYTHING THAT CARD CAN DO THAT
IS IN THE REALM OF AUDIO: WELL MAKE SURE THE DRIVER GIVES ACCESS TO IT!"

But I need to conserve my lungs, and spare the "golden ears" this group
possesses, so I guess a good start would be to examine what other software
is doing with Amiga audiocards these days at Pauli Porkka's site:

    http://www.iki.fi/pporkka/main.html

This site is regularly updated and has good links to other sound card
people. And I believe I will think a little more about this and reexamine
what other platforms are doing in the realm professional.


Sincerely,

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:03:55 -0500
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X-Message-No: 1478 (database)
From: troy silvey <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AHI Expectations...realisticly
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 22:03:01
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>So what kinds of things would be expected of an AHI driver for Studio16?

>But it seems to me it must be capable of providing every resource the
>Studio16 software used, in both directions. If there were still more

That would be great, but I think we could be happy with
an AHI that would at least let third party software send and receive
samples through the 516. Minimum would be to let the apps only send
samples through 516. Recording could still be done through S16, but
sample
editors would need to be able to make edits then play to the AHI support.
And games would only have to send the sound (including stereo sound) to
the 516 through AHI. More integrated AHI to the S16 features might not
be possible with out a major programming effort by folks like Ben and
the others who knew S16 inside and out. Can't see that happening in
the near future though.

troy

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X-ReplyTo-No: 1471 (There are more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1479 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Dave Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Regions Tool
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 22:25:01
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dave Hardy wrote:
>I typed Tony when I meant to type Anthony. Anthony Wood owns Sunrize
>Industries. Why he is in hiding I've no idea, but in the absence of any

Many thanks for the info Dave! It's an interresting start point.

>To me, Studio16 has a future even if the Amiga doesn't. To me, the
>important thing is how useful is the equipment, not is it the latest model.

I share the same view.

>I'm going to get back to you shortly with what use I can envision the CMX
>converter being put to.  No use you spending a lot of time on it unless it

Ok

>can be put to a practical purpose.


Regards,

- Kenny

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X-Message-No: 1481 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AHI Expectations...
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 22:58:00
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Ben Fuller wrote:

>So what kinds of things would be expected of an AHI driver for Studio16?

Play capabillity in minimum stereo. That's all there need to be in there as
a basic driver. It would be nice with variable freq./pan/volume. I don't
think recording should have high pri, but it would be nice to have this
feature as well.

The driver would probably need to handle memory-to-card as AHI works this
way (IIRC). Probably a caveeat on the last part ?


- Kenny

From [e-mail] Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:39:58 -0600
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X-Message-No: 1482 (database)
From: Rich Beachler <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AHI Expectations...realisticly
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 22:39:01
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Thanks for asking Ben!

>>So what kinds of things would be expected of an AHI driver for Studio16?

My guess is that the most useful AHI interface (without going overboard)
would have all the same input hooks as the Recorder module and output hooks
for playing and controlling volume levels. Stereo access would be a big plus.

A good start would be access to just the play and output level controls.

I really appreciate your willingness to carry on a dialogue about this.

Thanks again!


Rich Beachler
[e-mail]


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From [e-mail] Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:47:01 -0800
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1483 (database)
From: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 List <[e-mail]>
Subject: AHI Expectations... take two...
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 23:47:00
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What I really meant to say was:

So what kinds of things would be expected of an AHI driver for the _AD516_?

AHI coexisting with Studio16 will, most likely, not be an option... meaning
the overhead of Studio16 will not be required to use the AHI driver.

Ben.





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From [e-mail] 27 Jan 98 22:25:50 +0100
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X-Message-No: 1484 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Dave Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Regions Tool
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 22:25:01
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Dave Hardy wrote:
>I typed Tony when I meant to type Anthony. Anthony Wood owns Sunrize
>Industries. Why he is in hiding I've no idea, but in the absence of any

Many thanks for the info Dave! It's an interresting start point.

>To me, Studio16 has a future even if the Amiga doesn't. To me, the
>important thing is how useful is the equipment, not is it the latest model.

I share the same view.

>I'm going to get back to you shortly with what use I can envision the CMX
>converter being put to.  No use you spending a lot of time on it unless it

Ok

>can be put to a practical purpose.


Regards,

- Kenny

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From [e-mail] 27 Jan 98 22:58:35 +0100
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X-Message-No: 1485 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AHI Expectations...
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 22:58:00
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Ben Fuller wrote:

>So what kinds of things would be expected of an AHI driver for Studio16?

Play capabillity in minimum stereo. That's all there need to be in there as
a basic driver. It would be nice with variable freq./pan/volume. I don't
think recording should have high pri, but it would be nice to have this
feature as well.

The driver would probably need to handle memory-to-card as AHI works this
way (IIRC). Probably a caveeat on the last part ?


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:24:51 +0500
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X-Message-No: 1486 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] AHI Expectations AD516
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 12:24:01
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Ben, to the best of my knowledge I answered your AHI Take-2 the first time.
;^)  I am resubmitting for _serious_ discussion my first answer. I want any
pro-audio program to get some real use out of the AD516. Thanks for bearing
with me -- the rest of you also.
---------------------------------

>So what kinds of things would be expected of an AHI driver for th AD516?

    "Dammit Ben, I'm just a former dealer, not a software engineer!"
        {Thanks, Brian -- I think}.

But it seems to me it must be capable of providing every resource the
Studio16 software used, in both directions. If there were still more tricks
in the bag for the next release, that used calls that hadn't yet been
used in 3.01, I would say make those available too.

I don't know if other AHI drivers have embedded arexx calls (but I'm
guessing not, the sound software should be where arexx comes in, right?).
The AHI site --

    http://www.lysator.liu.se/~lcs/ahi.html

should be a place to start.


If I were to be wild and abandoned -- I would yell from every rooftop --
"PULL OUT ALL THE STOPS! ANYTHING THAT DSP -- ANYTHING THAT CARD CAN DO THAT
IS IN THE REALM OF AUDIO: WELL MAKE SURE THE DRIVER GIVES ACCESS TO IT!"

But I need to conserve my lungs, and spare the "golden ears" this group
possesses, so I guess a good start would be to examine what other software
is doing with Amiga audiocards these days at Pauli Porkka's site:

    http://www.iki.fi/pporkka/main.html

This site is regularly updated and has good links to other sound card
people. And I believe I will think a little more about this and reexamine
what other platforms are doing in the realm professional.


Sincerely,

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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X-Message-No: 1487 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Anthony Wood
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 01:18:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Gord Clink wrote:

>The Address is:   [e-mail]

Got bounce...


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 28 Jan 98 01:18:07 +0100
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X-Message-No: 1488 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Anthony Wood
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 01:18:00
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Gord Clink wrote:

>The Address is:   [e-mail]

Got bounce...


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:12:10 -0800
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X-Message-No: 1490 (database)
From: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] AHI Expectations AD516
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 09:12:00
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greenboy wrote:
>But it seems to me it must be capable of providing every resource the
>Studio16 software used, in both directions. If there were still more tricks
>in the bag for the next release, that used calls that hadn't yet been
>used in 3.01, I would say make those available too.


The next release of Studio16 would have (most likely) been a PC product
(ie. there were no more tricks... let alone a bag... :-)

AHI does not provide a mechanism for SMPTE timecode, therefore that
feature of the AD516 will not be available.

My current analysis of AHI indicates that the following should be feasible:

- Playback of up to eight channels of 16 bit-mono samples with volume and
pan.
- Monitor input channels.
- Record of up to four channels of 16 bit-mono samples (2 inputs and 2
outputs).
- Selectable playback/record sample frequency limited to common frequencies.


Ben.





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X-Message-No: 1491 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] AHI Expectations AD516
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 09:21:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ben Fuller wrote:

>AHI does not provide a mechanism for SMPTE timecode, therefore that
>feature of the AD516 will not be available.

No need for that in AHI either, but is there possible to have something that
can 'monitor' SMPTE - is there a offset in the library base we could use for
that ? Just curious.

>My current analysis of AHI indicates that the following should be feasible:
>- Playback of up to eight channels of 16 bit-mono samples with volume and
>pan.
>- Monitor input channels.
>- Record of up to four channels of 16 bit-mono samples (2 inputs and 2
>outputs).
>- Selectable playback/record sample frequency limited to common frequencies.

Having an AHI driver that could do this would be very useful indeed.


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 28 Jan 98 09:21:36 +0100
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X-ReplyTo-No: 1490 (There are no more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1492 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] AHI Expectations AD516
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 09:21:00
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Ben Fuller wrote:

>AHI does not provide a mechanism for SMPTE timecode, therefore that
>feature of the AD516 will not be available.

No need for that in AHI either, but is there possible to have something that
can 'monitor' SMPTE - is there a offset in the library base we could use for
that ? Just curious.

>My current analysis of AHI indicates that the following should be feasible:
>- Playback of up to eight channels of 16 bit-mono samples with volume and
>pan.
>- Monitor input channels.
>- Record of up to four channels of 16 bit-mono samples (2 inputs and 2
>outputs).
>- Selectable playback/record sample frequency limited to common frequencies.

Having an AHI driver that could do this would be very useful indeed.


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:41:31 +0500
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X-Message-No: 1493 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] AHI Expectations AD516
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 21:41:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Hey Ben.
>greenboy (that's me!) wrote, on 27-Jan-98:
>>But it seems to me it must be capable of providing every resource the
>>S16 software used, in both directions. If there were still more tricks
>>in the bag for the next release, that used calls that hadn't yet been
>>used in 3.01, I would say make those available too.

Ben's words on 28-Jan-98:
>The next release of Studio16 would have (most likely) been a PC product
>(ie. there were no more tricks... let alone a bag... :-)

The dealer lit I used to get: they claimed it was the biggest selling card
on any platform (92-93?). That was in a letter that was part of a promotion.

>AHI does not provide a mechanism for SMPTE timecode, therefore that
>feature of the AD516 will not be available.

My Gosh. Well, after all -- SMPTE has nothing to do with audio recording. Or
playback.

>My current analysis of AHI indicates that the following should be feasible:

>-Playback of up to eight channels of 16 bit-mono samples with volume and
>pan.
>-Monitor input channels.
>-Record of up to four channels of 16 bit-mono samples (2 inputs and 2
>outputs).
>-Selectable playback/record sample frequency limited to common frequencies.

So I guess a product could run on top of it that was reminiscient of (gasp)
Studio16. With improvements in interface, and using the OS calls for more
things (like screenmode, FI) so as to be more system friendly. On the
surface that doesn't exactly shake the world.

But if the AHI driver allowed more types of packages to play and read the
disk(s), and plug-ins were available for real bottom-line things like
de-noising, parametric, etc.

I'd like to see real time-parametric, more real time mixing features.
Impossible?

Thanks for taking it this far.

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:24:07 +0100
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1498 (database)
From: Maurizio Ciccione <[e-mail]>
To: Steve Kusaba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AudioLabs
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 18:24:00
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>Maurizio,

>I don't have any suggestions about the timeline at present but expansive
>variants of manipulating the samples after they are recorded would be great.

It's okay, Steve.



>Another thing, (I am not sure that this is related) that would be really
>great would be to have the ability to record samples and put them on a CD in
>a format that would be similar to that of the typical tone generators that
>Roland and others make. The samples that those companys have are usually

Are the CDs in ISO format and the files uncompressed? If they are then
there's no problem. Otherwise I'd need to contact Roland.

Some sampling CDs use the SD format. I've got the original documentation
for SDI (short sounds, for instruments) and SDII (generic recordings)
directly from Digidesign.

This is the first request for supporting Roland material. Maybe they just
use some standard format. Please let me know.




All the best,

dr. Maurizio Ciccione
AudioLabs, Digital Audio Engineering



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From [e-mail] Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:01:15 -0600
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From: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: Wow!!
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When Ben speaks, everyone shuts-up!



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From [e-mail] Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:57:52 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] CD Formats for Midi Samplers
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 11:57:01
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Steve's words (never got this mail so tell me when):
>>Another thing, (I am not sure that this is related) that would be really
>>great would be to have the ability to record samples and put them on a CD

Maurizio Ciccione's words on 28-Jan-98:
>Are the CDs in ISO format and the files uncompressed? If they are then
>there's no problem. Otherwise I'd need to contact Roland.

>Some sampling CDs use the SD format. I've got the original documentation
>for SDI (short sounds, for instruments) and SDII (generic recordings)
>directly from Digidesign.

>This is the first request for supporting Roland material. Maybe they just
>use some standard format. Please let me know.

Hi, Maurizio. There are two basic categories for sampling CDs:

#1# Audio CDs which simply store samples as audio tracks for the buyer to
sample from.

#2# CD-Roms which store pre-mapped and -voiced samples specific to different
midi samplers. These can be uploaded into the samplers via SCSI interfaces
and are ready to play, with appropriate keyboard-mapping and performance
features. They are typically ISO and uncompressed, for real-time use.

Within the formating of the CD-Rom, the [groups of] samples themselves are
stored in formats specific to brands and instruments. This is because the
different instruments support a variety of parameters and "voicing"
features.

But to ensure some compatibility for instance, the Akai format is widely
read by other brands of samplers which include E-Mu and later Ensoniq
instruments (though they also have their own formats). Kurzweil has a widely
supported format, Roland to a lesser extent, Peavey, Korg, etc.

Keyboard Magazine and their website http://www.keyboardmag.com is probably
the best place to look to understand this marketplace of CDs. Discussed at
their site (or used to be anyway) are the standards for publishing CDs.

Hope this will help. Feel free to ask if I can clear anything up.

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:36:02 EST5EDT4,M4.1.0
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From: Jacob Ellis <[e-mail]>
To: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AHI Expectations... take two...
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 01:36:00
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On 27-Jan-98, Ben Fuller wrote:
>What I really meant to say was:

>So what kinds of things would be expected of an AHI driver for the _AD516_?

>AHI coexisting with Studio16 will, most likely, not be an option... meaning
>the overhead of Studio16 will not be required to use the AHI driver.

I think just the basics. The ability to play audio in stereo at the AD516's
supported sample rates, volume and panning control.


What more could a person possibly want? :)


Jacob
--
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:31:24 -0500
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From: Mark Montfort <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: AudioLabs
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 05:31:00
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To All:  I'm sending around a thoughtful and encouraging reply from
Maurizio to some feedback we've been bouncing back and forth about the
AudioLabs and AD516.  On reading this over, I don't think there's anything
Maurizio would object everyone hearing and I think his replys have some
great information that people might be interested in.

Return-Path: <[e-mail]>
From: Maurizio Ciccione <[e-mail]>
To: Mark Montfort <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:56:42 +0100
Subject: Re: AudioLabs & Upgrading

>Maurizio,

>Thanks for your reply.  I can appreciate how busy you are.

>>Well, if we can track some guy from the original Sunrize crew maybe
>>we can get the driver done. Otherwise it wouldn't be that simple to
>>use the board directly.

>Pardon my ignorance of AudioLab, I've got the reviews buried somewhere in
>storage...!  But, what are you using then?  As I recall, you're supporting
>other boards (Tocatta, etc.) as well as AHI, meaning the audio would be 14
>bit coming through the amiga audio outs if no other boards than the AD516
>are installed in my amiga?

All correct except the fact that we *don't* support AHI. We have
our driver standard, including a 14bit driver for the motherboard
outputs.





>>Plans are to both include hi-quality effects and allows 3rd parties
>>to sell their ones as plug-ins.
>>
>>The scheme you proposed (preview, save as Studio16 files) is the same
>>already in use in AudioLab16. We'll work on compression/limiting

>Outstanding!  Right now I am saving for a wonderful little piece of
>outboard gear called a "Finalizer" by T.C. Electronics, retail about
>$2,000.00 American Dollars.  It can be used for recording/processing
>tracks, but its main use is as a mastering tool.  If your product would be
>a viable alternative to this you would attract a serious niche of us
>high-end music type people.

Yes. We're addressing only the mid and hi end (no interest for the
entry level Amigas). This allows tuning the features/performances
of our products torward hi-quality standards.

Staying away from the entry level market is "expensive" for a company
but we're sure we'll continue to get respectable support from the
power-users audience we're addressing.




>Again, what is the signal output mechanism, since you aren't yet supporting
>the AD516 hardware?  And is it 16bit, 44k?  What is the Signal to Noise
>ratio and Dynamic Range?

We intend drivers just for auditioning as the master tracks can now
be easily delivered on digital media (CD-R, DAT,...). By the way
AudioLab16R2 supports downloading to DAT with Maestro, SoundStage,
SOundStagePro hardware.


AudioLab16R2 outputs at 48KHz (or lower) / 16bit.

Internally the S/N (and D.N., as they are the same for linear PCM
systems) is 144dB (24bit software registers).

All this doesn't need any board as you can use the application as
a digital to digital system.





>Yes, exactly.  My thought was that these samples (short duration, drum &
>percussive hits, fairly low memory) could be loaded into RAM for access
>instead of constantly reading the Hardrive.  That clarification probably
>doesn't make it "do-able" from your standpoint, but it's what I was

The problem here is poliphony. A multitrack system can prefetch
tracks and mix them in realtime as it knows in advance the timing
of each event. A realtime drum-machine, responding to random MIDI
events should use a completly different design.

As you suggested, sounds should be stored in RAM but the  whole
architecture should be changed.

The fact is that a good multitrack software is worth thousands
of dollars in stand-alone gears, while a real drume machine is
relatively cheaper, no? I mean, not a big saving....






>Maurizio, thanks for your considered reply.  This year I'll be paying
>attention to seeing if they get a port of Amiga OS for the PPC boards
>coming out.  IF so, I'll be moving to one of those.  Will your product be
>compatible?

Yes, Mark! We'll receive out early PPC hardware any day now.
ProStation PPC is planned for June. And PPC plug-ins as well.

We have decided not to wait for the OS porting as the dual
processor boards (more complex) have been explicitly designed
to allow porting the applications without the need of waiting
for a new OS.



All the best,

dr. Maurizio Ciccione
AudioLabs, Digital Audio Engineering






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From [e-mail] Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:39:49 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AudioLabs
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 19:39:00
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Mark Montfort's words with Maurizio Ciccione replying:
>>Yes, exactly. My thought was that these samples (short duration, drum &
>>percussive hits, fairly low memory) could be loaded into RAM for access
>>instead of constantly reading the Hardrive. That clarification probably

>The problem here is poliphony. A multitrack system can prefetch
>tracks and mix them in realtime as it knows in advance the timing
>of each event. A realtime drum-machine, responding to random MIDI

>As you suggested, sounds should be stored in RAM but the whole
>architecture should be changed.

>The fact is that a good multitrack software is worth thousands
>of dollars in stand-alone gears, while a real drume machine is
>relatively cheaper, no? I mean, not a big saving....

Using the AD516 to be a midi sample-playback unit: inappropriate. I have
seen this mentioned on the ML several times. There is a plethora of
stand-alone hardware that (a) samples, and (b) has the neccessary interface
to be very good at playing back and altering the sound of said samples in
real-time. And it is available in many price ranges starting at dirt cheap.
And it usually can take being hammered in the field, as well as the studio.
Polyphony often exceeds the equivalent of 64 voices.

Furthermore, the AD516 is enhanced by its hard-drive orientation, not
encumbered by it. For instance: you've got tracks that were recorded on ADAT
in a studio that had a not-especially-clean signal chain. You bounce them
into the computer, and using a Plug-in designed for de-noising, typically
apply it to entire tracks or mixes, which are almost always longer than what
can be loaded into ram on any realistic setup.

Polyphony is not especially a consideration here. You want something that
can act as a multitrack recorder, but is not relegated to the linear
approach tape-based multitracks are hobbled to. Something you can go down
into the microcosm on, if need be, to edit.

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1506 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Francisco Rabay Junior <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: About Studio16 audio software improvements
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 13:53:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Francisco Rabay Junior wrote:

>1. Noise reduction removal (with a noise print sample)
>2. Hum removal
>3. And pops and clicks removal from vinyl discs...
>   Could be by Interpolation and replacement from one of the channels to the

Francisco, FYI:

I have investigated some on this and found some things that could very well
be suitable for this. The stuff contain rather complex math so I will have
to find some sources that has 'translated' this into 'human' code.

The stuff is "Bayesian Enhancement of speech and audio signals which can be
modelled as ARMA processes" (MCMC/ARMA),

and "Robust treatment of impulsive noise in speech and audio signals".

The ARMA processing is meant for vinyl noise, pops and crackles while the
latter is for reconstruction of sound (basically, that is).


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 29 Jan 98 13:53:33 +0100
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1507 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Francisco Rabay Junior <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: About Studio16 audio software improvements
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 13:53:00
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Francisco Rabay Junior wrote:

>1. Noise reduction removal (with a noise print sample)
>2. Hum removal
>3. And pops and clicks removal from vinyl discs...
>   Could be by Interpolation and replacement from one of the channels to the

Francisco, FYI:

I have investigated some on this and found some things that could very well
be suitable for this. The stuff contain rather complex math so I will have
to find some sources that has 'translated' this into 'human' code.

The stuff is "Bayesian Enhancement of speech and audio signals which can be
modelled as ARMA processes" (MCMC/ARMA),

and "Robust treatment of impulsive noise in speech and audio signals".

The ARMA processing is meant for vinyl noise, pops and crackles while the
latter is for reconstruction of sound (basically, that is).


- Kenny

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X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1508 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: All <[e-mail]>
Subject: AHI Filesaver
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 16:05:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP)

The AHI filesaver I have mentioned a while back is now available from Martin
Bloms homepage:

        http://www.lysator.liu.se/~lcs/

NOTE: This is NOT a /driver/ for the AD516 card - it just allow you to save
data from AHI aware software as Studio 16 sample files (KWK3).


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 29 Jan 98 16:05:23 +0100
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1509 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: All <[e-mail]>
Subject: AHI Filesaver
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 16:05:00
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The AHI filesaver I have mentioned a while back is now available from Martin
Bloms homepage:

        http://www.lysator.liu.se/~lcs/

NOTE: This is NOT a /driver/ for the AD516 card - it just allow you to save
data from AHI aware software as Studio 16 sample files (KWK3).


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:06:57 +0500
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1510 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] AHI Action: News at Seven
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 07:06:01
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Hi, everybody; looks like this list is smokin' and on track. Just saw a
mini- interview from Joe Torres (Amiga International) that mentions the
great steps independents have made toward standards for the Amiga. AHI was
mentioned -- but rather than paraphrase everything: Browse on, Amigas! --

    http://www.cu-amiga.co.uk/news/cpu.html

Francisco Rabay Junior wrote:
>>1. Noise reduction removal (with a noise print sample) 2. Hum removal 3.
>>pops and clicks removal from vinyl discs... Could be by Interpolation and
>>replacement from one of the channels to

Kenny Nilsen's words on 29-Jan-98:
>I have investigated some on this and found some things that could very well
>be suitable for this. The stuff contain rather complex math so I will have
>to find some sources that has 'translated' this into 'human' code.

>The stuff is "Bayesian Enhancement of speech and audio signals which can be
>modelled as ARMA processes" (MCMC/ARMA), and "Robust treatment of impulsive
>noise in speech and audio signals".

>The ARMA processing is meant for vinyl noise, pops and crackles while the
>latter is for reconstruction of sound (basically, that is).

Wow, big-name White Papers, new acronyms -- great stuff! Did you check out
the stuff Digidesign publishes for Plug-in designers? Might be some
time-saving links available there --

    http://www.digidesign.com

and Sound Forge --

    http://www.sfoundry.com

Maybe there are algorhythms already floating around out there, available.

>The AHI filesaver --snip-- now available from Martin Bloms homepage:
>   http://www.lysator.liu.se/~lcs/
>NOTE: This is NOT a /driver/ for the AD516 card - it just allow you to save
>data from AHI aware software as Studio 16 sample files (KWK3).

So AHI looks more like a real deal each passing day...

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] AHI Action: News at Seven
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 20:11:01
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greenboy wrote:

>    http://www.cu-amiga.co.uk/news/cpu.html

Going PPC - nice :-)

>>The ARMA processing is meant for vinyl noise, pops and crackles while the
>Wow, big-name White Papers, new acronyms -- great stuff! Did you check out

I am preparing mentally to go through all that stuff. My matrix printer used
circa 8 hours to print it all out using Ghostscript (postscript->bitmap) :(

>the stuff Digidesign publishes for Plug-in designers? Might be some
>time-saving links available there --

Thanks, will check them out!

>Maybe there are algorhythms already floating around out there, available.

Very likely even though the stuff is pretty "new" ('95/96)

>>The AHI filesaver --snip-- now available from Martin Bloms homepage:
>So AHI looks more like a real deal each passing day...

I like to think so :)


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 29 Jan 98 20:11:57 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: [S16] AHI Action: News at Seven
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 20:11:01
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greenboy wrote:

>    http://www.cu-amiga.co.uk/news/cpu.html

Going PPC - nice :-)

>>The ARMA processing is meant for vinyl noise, pops and crackles while the
>Wow, big-name White Papers, new acronyms -- great stuff! Did you check out

I am preparing mentally to go through all that stuff. My matrix printer used
circa 8 hours to print it all out using Ghostscript (postscript->bitmap) :(

>the stuff Digidesign publishes for Plug-in designers? Might be some
>time-saving links available there --

Thanks, will check them out!

>Maybe there are algorhythms already floating around out there, available.

Very likely even though the stuff is pretty "new" ('95/96)

>>The AHI filesaver --snip-- now available from Martin Bloms homepage:
>So AHI looks more like a real deal each passing day...

I like to think so :)


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:27:01 -0500
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From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
To: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AHI Filesaver
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 00:27:00
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Kenny spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:

> The AHI filesaver I have mentioned a while back is now available from Martin
> Bloms homepage:

Nope.  I looked, I don't see.

--

dhomas.

**********************************************************************
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From [e-mail] Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:15:34 -0600
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From: Dave Schmoldt <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Studio16/AD516 SCSI Lockup Problems
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 06:15:00
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My Studio 16/AD516 system is an Amiga 3000, OS 2.x. I have an internal
500 MEG Quantum, and had been using an external JAZ drive for sample
storage.  The JAZ worked fine, but if I tried to read samples off the
internal drive, the hard drive light would intermittently freeze on for
maybe 20 seconds, and the sample would stop loading.  Basically what
seemed to be a SCSI lockup.  After the freeze, the sample transfer would
pick up again. Since it was intermittent and I normally used the Jaz
drive for samples, I didn't worry about it.

Now I have purchased an internal 4Gig Micropolis SCSI drive, and want to
use it instead of the Jaz.  I installed it last noght, and partitioned
it into two 2-Gig partitions (the largest HDToolBox would allow).
Seemed fine.  I used DOS copy to move some samples to the second of the
two partitions.

When I try to play the samples using Studio16, I get almost immediate
SCSI lockups.  After about 20 seconds, the sample will continue, but
followed by another freeze within seconds.  Instead of intermittent,
like it was on the 500 Meg drive (which is now first in the SCSI chain),
the lockups are now constant (but the old Quantum hasn't gotten any
worse ... still intermittent).

I have the SCSI terminations set up correctly, according to SCSI
standards.  Since the problem happens with both my internal SCSI drives,
and never on external SCSI devices, I'm thinking it's a controller
instead of a drive problem.  The new Micropolis should be much faster at
transfers than the Quantum ... could I be overloading the SCSI buss?

Does anyone have any hints on why the problems with internal SCSI
drives?  I seem to vaguely remember hearing something about the A3000
having a SCSI chip upgrade.  I've never upgraded my SCSI chip.

I've never noticed any freezes, except when playing samples with
Studio16.  But then that's the only time I'm really moving huge amounts
of data.

Thanks for any guidance..

Dave Schmoldt
Theatre Cedar Rapids
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From [e-mail] Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:42:26 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Dave Schmoldt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Studio16/AD516 SCSI Lockup Problems
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 18:42:00
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Dave Schmoldt's words on 30-Jan-98:
>My Studio 16/AD516 system is an Amiga 3000, OS 2.x. I have an internal

I would really start checking for physical address conflicts, make sure
termination is really correct, cable quality is very important. Sounds like
you've had flakiness before you ever got the new drive. So where was that
coming from?

Disconnect (a scsi software setting) could be a problem. I would note model
numbers, go to the A3000 hardware site, which you should be able to find
through the Amiga Web Directory, then I'd go to the qwuantum site. That
older Quantum might need Disconnect when other drives are on the bus.

I really don't remember the specifics on the 3000 scsi host, but all this
info is on the web. I don't believe your prob has anything to do with the
Studio16 software. Hope this helps.

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:19:25 -0600
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From: Dave Schmoldt <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: Studio16/AD516 SCSI Lockup Problems
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I don't think it's the Studio16 either, but since it seems to happen
more with large data transfers, I'm hoping someone here might have run
into (and solved) the problem already.

I thought about re-select, but that setting isn't availabel in
HDToolbox.  I think the GVP SCSI setup utility had that option ... maybe
I can try that using scsi.device.

greenboy wrote:

> I really don't remember the specifics on the 3000 scsi host, but all this
> info is on the web. I don't believe your prob has anything to do with the
> Studio16 software. Hope this helps.
>
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From [e-mail] Fri, 30 Jan 1998 02:24:12 -0500
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From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
To: Dave Schmoldt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Studio16/AD516 SCSI Lockup Problems
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 08:24:00
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Dave spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:

> Now I have purchased an internal 4Gig Micropolis SCSI drive, and want to
> use it instead of the Jaz.  I installed it last noght, and partitioned
> it into two 2-Gig partitions (the largest HDToolBox would allow).

First of all, to use a drive bigger than 4G you MUST install the new
scsi patches from the Amiga site (files area is off of the News
section).  I've got them here if you can't find them.  If you do not,
anything written to the upper partition (4G area) will corrupt the
bootblock and other data on the low end.

I spent 3 days trying to get it all working, so if you need some help
contact me directly.  I've posted this reply to the list in case anyone
else ventures into the land of 4G...

> I have the SCSI terminations set up correctly, according to SCSI
> standards.  Since the problem happens with both my internal SCSI drives,

Do you have the 3000 motherboard terminators installed?  3 blue
(probably) resistor packs.  If so, you probably have to remove them.

> drives?  I seem to vaguely remember hearing something about the A3000
> having a SCSI chip upgrade.  I've never upgraded my SCSI chip.

You should upgrade to the latest chip... they aren't that expensive and
can make all the difference in the world.


> I've never noticed any freezes, except when playing samples with
> Studio16.  But then that's the only time I'm really moving huge amounts
> of data.

Yes, this is very likely the reason.

--

dhomas.

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From [e-mail] Fri, 30 Jan 1998 02:26:02 -0500
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From: dhomas trenn <[e-mail]>
To: Dave Schmoldt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Studio16/AD516 SCSI Lockup Problems
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 08:26:00
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Dave spoke and whirled like a Dervish divine:

> I thought about re-select, but that setting isn't availabel in
> HDToolbox.  I think the GVP SCSI setup utility had that option ... maybe
> I can try that using scsi.device.

You need a utility like RDBFlags to play with these SCSI flags... and
also SetBatt.

--

dhomas.

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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: AHI Filesaver
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 08:03:00
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dhomas trenn wrote:
>> The AHI filesaver I have mentioned a while back is now available from
>> Martin Bloms homepage:
>Nope.  I looked, I don't see.

Hm, strange... I'll tell Martin.



- Kenny

From [e-mail] 30 Jan 98 08:03:19 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: AHI Filesaver
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dhomas trenn wrote:
>> The AHI filesaver I have mentioned a while back is now available from
>> Martin Bloms homepage:
>Nope.  I looked, I don't see.

Hm, strange... I'll tell Martin.



- Kenny

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Can anyone tell me how many play back channels I should be able to get with Stock 3000/25Mhz and Quantum 2.1GB FireBall SCSI drive with Studio16 Cache set to 512kb?  (I'm using an 8k block size with OS3.1)

Gord Clink
[e-mail]
Dryden, Ontario, Canada

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From [e-mail] Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:34:03 -0800
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From: McKittrick, Mike T <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Studio16/AD516 SCSI Lockup Problems
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 17:34:00
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Dave wrote:
> Does anyone have any hints on why the problems with internal SCSI
> drives?  I seem to vaguely remember hearing something about the A3000
> having a SCSI chip upgrade.  I've never upgraded my SCSI chip.
>
I have a 3000 and went thru the various chip upgrades the first of which
was the SCSI chip.  Highly recommend it.  It is the Western Digital SCSI
rev8A available from Paxtron, Software Hut, VisionSoft, etc., for about
$25-$28.
Something else you can try is to install the 2nd drive externally along
side the Jazz drive.  Feel free to email me if you have any questions.

Regards, Mike
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From [e-mail] Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:04:24 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] Playback Channels A3000/25
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 06:04:00
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Gord Clink's words on 30-Jan-98:
>Can anyone tell me how many play back channels I should be able to get with
>Stock 3000/25Mhz and Quantum 2.1GB FireBall SCSI drive with Studio16 Cache
>set to 512kb? (I'm using an 8k block size with OS3.1)

Well, back when I had an A3000/25MHz, and an older drive than that it seems
like 5 to 6 was a good bet. But I never really optimized before I was on to
my A4000.

  [Then I was doomed. I had problems with the A4000/AD516 combo Sunrize had
  made a minor board revision to solve, and neglected to inform me of, even
  as a dealer. Then, gone without a trace --]

I have heard claims of 7-8, but am sceptical.

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Playback Channels?
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 19:24:00
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Gord Clink wrote:

>Can anyone tell me how many play back channels I should be able to get with
>Stock 3000/25Mhz and Quantum 2.1GB FireBall SCSI drive with Studio16 Cache
>set to 512kb?  (I'm using an 8k block size with OS3.1)

I don't have an A3000, but my A4000/030/25 can play 6 channels at most using
AFS and a zorro II (GVP) scsi controller. This is at 44.1khz and doesn't
always work (depends on how much edits a file contains (seek()'s) and other
stuff). I am using a 256kb channel buffer and 128kb copy buffer.


- Kenny

From [e-mail] 30 Jan 98 19:24:19 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Playback Channels?
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 19:24:00
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Gord Clink wrote:

>Can anyone tell me how many play back channels I should be able to get with
>Stock 3000/25Mhz and Quantum 2.1GB FireBall SCSI drive with Studio16 Cache
>set to 512kb?  (I'm using an 8k block size with OS3.1)

I don't have an A3000, but my A4000/030/25 can play 6 channels at most using
AFS and a zorro II (GVP) scsi controller. This is at 44.1khz and doesn't
always work (depends on how much edits a file contains (seek()'s) and other
stuff). I am using a 256kb channel buffer and 128kb copy buffer.


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:29:50 -0800
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From: Ben Fuller <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 List <[e-mail]>
Subject: Amiga <-> PC connections...
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 01:29:01
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Does anyone know of Amiga software that allows access to shared Win95/NT
directories?
How about Amiga software that shares directories so that Windows can access
them.

(I'm looking into setting up a hybrid PC/Amiga build environment)


Ben.





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From [e-mail] 30 Jan 98 21:08:02 +0500
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From: Mike Masquith <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: Amiga <-> PC connections...
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 17:08:00
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> Does anyone know of Amiga software that allows access to shared Win95/NT
> directories?
> How about Amiga software that shares directories so that Windows can access
> them.
>
> (I'm looking into setting up a hybrid PC/Amiga build environment)
>
Connected how? Ethernet? If so, I use Samba along with Miami (TCP/IP
stack). Samba allows the Amiga to communicate with the built in
Win95/NT networking. It's a port of a Unix program. Not easy to
install and setup, but it works. This allows the Windoze machines to
'see' the Amiga drives.
For the Amiga to 'see' the Windoze drives, you can't just share them.
For some reason you have to get an NFS (Network File System). It
sounds like a bigger deal than it is, thankfully. The one I use is
TropicNFS. I think the shareware fee was under $30. It is mercifully
easy to set up.

Samba is on Aminet. I think the latest version is 1.6.9.
I forget where I found Tropic. Wasn't too difficult using AltaVista
search.
If you go this route, let me know. I can help you get it set up.
--
-Mike Masquith, Barkin' Beaver Studios, VA, USA

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From [e-mail] Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:10:08 EST5EDT4,M4.1.0
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From: Jacob Ellis <[e-mail]>
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On 31-Jan-98, Ben Fuller wrote:
>Does anyone know of Amiga software that allows access to shared Win95/NT
>directories?
>How about Amiga software that shares directories so that Windows can access
>them.

Only one I know of that is practical is the Siamese system.  It isn't
cheap, but it is very well regarded (it actually does a lot more than just
file sharing).

http://www.siamese.co.uk


Jacob
--
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:02:29 -0500
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X-Message-No: 1534 (database)
From: Serge A Guilbert <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SMPTEout -Reply -Reply -Reply
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 07:02:00
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-->The video camera (or blackburst generator or whatever) would supply the
-->timing clock, a genlock would synchronize the Amiga to the video source,
-->and SMPTEout would output SMPTE based on the timing signals provided by the
-->video camera.

OK. I understand the Amiga synching with the genlock, but how does the Amiga synch
with SMPTEOut? After all, SMPTEOut is a free-running module.

-->It is quite possible such a synchronization method would provide a more
-->stable timing reference over a period of time when compared to an aging
-->Amiga no longer in its prime.

Sure, as long as the SMPTEOut's output is accurate, which is really what started
this entire discussion in the first place, no?  :>)



-->CGX v3 is much better, I can run Studio16 with a couple tracks going and
-->not get any audio interruptions when I change screens.

This is encouraging. Thanks.



-->Are you saying you are running the audio out of the Amiga into the SMPTE
-->input and using SMPTEout to drive Studio16?  If this is the case then I
-->don't think you will ever get that to work accurately.

No. The SMPTEOut automatically locks into the Studio16, just like playing the
Internal SMPTE Generator. Funny you mention it though. Just out of curiousity, I
actually tried to connect it in the manner you mentioned (I apparently have way
too much time on my hands). If I remember, it didn't work, because the internal
lock takes priority over the external.



Sounding off;
Serge A. Guilbert, B.Eng
CAE Electronics, Flight Simulators, Sound Group
[phone] x4129
[e-mail]



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From [e-mail] Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:32:26 +0500
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X-Message-No: 1535 (database)
From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] Siamese System not Server
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 19:32:00
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That address for Ben Fuller sure was not the site supporting the Siamese
System. Hope you didn't sign up for server services there, Ben <wink-wink>.

  http://www.oberland.com

You can probably go from there; that's just the front door. Last time I was
there some of the stuff was only in German. Probably search engines or
Amiga Web Directory can find it in Americanese if this is still the case.

Both methods mentioned have their pluses. One of these days I'll probably go
for the Siamese System, as a very powerful way to integrate two platforms
into one -- _and_ share files.

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:40:37 +0500
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From: greenboy <[e-mail]>
To: Studio16 Crew <[e-mail]>
Subject: [S16] A4000 and GVP scsi host
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 19:40:00
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Kenny Nilsen's words on 30-Jan-98:

>I don't have an A3000, but my A4000/030/25 can play 6 channels at most using
>AFS and a zorro II (GVP) scsi controller. This is at 44.1khz and doesn't
>always work (depends on how much edits a file contains (seek()'s) and other
>stuff). I am using a 256kb channel buffer and 128kb copy buffer.

Kenny, has that system ever been reliable for you? The GVP card gave me tons
of grief and unreliability in both my 4000 and 2000 -- until I got the GuruRom
for it. Still, due to Sunrize not informing me of a slight board mod I would
need to run it in the 4000, I was limited to using it in the 2000.

Earlier, when Sunrize still was passing information on, I was informed the
GVP dma scsi design was problematic. That was certainly what I found.

In general the Guru Rom spead things up and cleared up some other problems.

--
   *greenboy*
    // Team              NO AMIGA TO WASTE: Help build programs Ami needs!
  \X/ AMIGA                                  *http://thunderstorms.org/NATW*

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From [e-mail] Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:01:11 -0500
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X-Message-No: 1537 (database)
From: Serge A Guilbert <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SMPTEout -Reply -Reply -Reply
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 08:01:00
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Hello Gary;

-->I wonder if it is the same thing...in that, the way S16 -hooks internally- to
-->the time code of S/O (SMPTE Output) may be different than the way
-->S16 -hooks- to time code it hears coming in it's smpte sync input.

In that context, I agree. However, I was refering to the fact that if the SMPTEOut
code is drifting, it's going to drift just as much if it is recorded onto a
reel-to-reel, and played back (assuming the reel-to-reel is calibrated). Sorry for
the confusion.


-->I am beginning to look at the inter relationships between - -
-->  1. the cuelist transport (internal sync)
-->  2. the SMPTE Generator   (internal sync)
-->  3. the SMPTE Output
-->  4. the SMPTE sync input on the back of the AD516
-->  5. the time code -hooks- B&P uses

Please let me know what you find.



>If we try to use the Internal SMPTE Generator, which is an accurate
>source,

-->(not sure about that leap)

Well, I'll tell you what. As per my tests, it's as accurate as my Fostex 4010
rack-mount Generator. As I mentioned previously, I can stripe my reel-to-reel with
a 4010 generated SMPTE code, record my audio tracks, and play everything back,
properly synched to B&P, using the Internal SMPTE Genrator as SMPTE master. That's
about as good as it gets in my books. Can you think of a more "deterministic"
test? If so, I'd be glad to try it.



-->From my memory of 3 plus years ago when I went round and round with
-->Todd Modjeski about this, it seems to me that there is some
-->calculating the S16 does everytime you start a playback in the
-->cuelist.

I did a quickie test with the pitch control of my reel-to-reel (SMPTE Master). If
I slow down my reel-to-reel a little bit, my audio tracks will start to drift from
my B&P drumbeat. If I slow down my reel-to-reel a lot (about 10%), Studio16 will
stop playing the samples outright. Same thing if I speed everything up. This would
suggest to me that Studio16 cannot dynamically recalc playback speeds (nor should
it, really).

Now that I think of it, when I had my AD1012 installed alongside my AD516, I would
always get a warning message which showed up every time I would inadvertently try
to play back AD516 samples on the AD1012. It would tell me that the AD1012
couldn't play back 44.1kHz samples, and would have to re-convert to a speed
accessible to the AD1012 (43.8 kHz, or some nonsensical thing like that). If
Studio16 was, indeed, able to dynamically convert on the fly, I should think it
would have done so at that point.


-->The SMPTE Lock in the Preferences I thought was an attempt to keep
-->S16 in a constant or almost constant update mode as far as where S16
-->was in relation to any external sync source.

Yeah. Big mystery there. The manual doesn't explain much.


-->was this comparison done with the 4010 recorded to tape and played
-->back or generated directly?

Both methods.


-->idea in mind.  If it was so obvious that the design as you describe
-->of Internal SMPTE was so much more (logically) accurate, why did
-->they not use AD516 in some way to generate it?  I don't think it was

Good question. This is something I've always wondered about. Perhaps others in the
know...


-->Once again I am not saying you are wrong,

HA. Don't worry. I'm usually wrong more often than I'm right.  ;>)


-->Is there any type of SMPTE analyzer device that could check the
-->integrity/accuracy of SMPTE code?

Hmm, good question. I know that, in Jam mode, the Fostex 4010 will try to fix, or
reshape, an incoming signal. It will even fill in missing pulses. That would be a
test I could try at some point. I could run the reel-to-reel signal into the 4010,
and slow down the pitch wheel on the reel-to-reel to see how the 4010 deals with
it.


-->I stayed up very late last night 5AM! testing some of these ideas
-->and a few others.  My results were mixed at best.  When my head is
-->clear....hopefully by tomorrow, I will post my observations.

Cool.



-->Thanks Serge and Richard.  This is an area that really needs to be
-->cleared up.  I'm down wit it!

Agreed. Please forgive the tardy reply. I was out of town for a while.


-->Please bare with my scrutiny....just looking for my own silver bullets.

No problem at all. Let me know when you bag yourself a werewolf.   :>)



Sounding off;
Serge A. Guilbert, B.Eng
CAE Electronics, Flight Simulators, Sound Group
[phone] x4129
[e-mail]


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From [e-mail] Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:08:13 +0500
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-ReplyTo-No: 1463 (There are no more replies.)
X-Message-No: 1538 (database)
From: Brian Fields <[e-mail]>
To: Gord Clink <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Buying the technology
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 22:08:00
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On 27-Jan-98, greenboy wrote:
---------------------------------

    "Dammit Ben, I'm just a former dealer, not a software engineer!"
        {Thanks, Brian -- I think}.

---------------------------------

Thanks for the credit greenboy, but I think Gene Roddenberry gets it.

If I may put my two cents in,


*On 27-Jan-98, Gord Clink wrote:*
>I was referring to Lee's remarks!!  It just sounded a little angry to me!
>Being angry never gets results. Esp. when dealing with someone who could help
>us, like Ben!!

*>Lee's Reply to Ben!! *

>They wanted to buy the technology to produce the boards..
>why else would they spend a year trying to find out?
>Perhaps, you think they were on a personal quest to just
>see if they could find out for the hell of it?

>They never were able to find out! They found nothing but dead ends.

>Millions of dollars...funny. It would be better to sell the stuff for
>$5000.00 and be rid of it, rather than to sit on it and do
>nothing with it, until it is so old it's useless. Especially, hardware
>for what you consider to be a dead platform.  Yep sitting on
>hardware and software that is dated anyway, now thats a
>*brilliant idea*. Perhaps in a few more years they might, just
>might be able to donate it to a museum or somthing.
>regards,

>Lee

Guys and dolls,

Sounds to me like Ben is being pretty straight with us. I feel honored to be
in the company of quite a few of the caliber of folks here. I'm a hacker who
is out of my league with some of this stuff but as far as Gord and Lee, you
seem to both make some valid points.

I'm passionate about my Amiga as I'm sure a lot of folks here are. And I'm
sure all of us are frustrated by the seeming indifference to the platform's
dilemma. I'm frankly amazed that with all obsolete technology, (except for the
PPC '060 I'm about to get for my "antique" A3000) that I am using, I can
still compete in a small business environment with burning CD's, doing
digital audio soundtracks for video, non-linear editing etc.

Other platforms are at this moment eclipsing the Amiga with less
configuration hassles and better output at a lower price but it's taken them
years to catch up and even then Amiga USA had to go into bankruptcy in order
for them to do this.

Yes it is indeed the right of whoever owns the rights to Sunrize to sit on
them till hell freezes over. And they also have a right not to be hassled or
bugged.
I know a person at Gateway however who would definitley argue that the Amiga
is not a dead platform. He used to be the president of our user group here in
Atlana(and a damn good one) and is now head of engineering at Gateway for the
Amiga.. . . Joe Torre.
So on this premise, with Amiga "dead or alive?" question firmly established
in the respective persons minds, it would seem to beg the question; What
would be the most productive?

Is the Sunrize code usable in another product? It is obviously well thought
out enough.

Should willing minds be given some of the code in order to help keep it
alive? Altruism, passion and spirit are all fine and good but who really got
screwed when Sunrize went out of business? All Amigans yes. Did the owner who
has it now get screwed and feels he can use it on another product. If so,
more power to 'em. I know I'm undercutting most of the folks wishes on this
mailing list including myself but if the person(s) who now own it have gone
to the lengths that it seems they have, not to be known or bothered, there is
nothing that anyone can or should do to try and find out this info.
I respect the coders and builders of the Sunrize boards. Hopefully one of the
same masterminds who developed it still has it. If they had so much love and
thought into this that they did such a great job on it, I have no doubt that
eventually they will do the right thing with it. . . . . . .
And only they know what that is.

*Sorry if my two cents worth ran up to four dollars.*

I wrote this a few days ago and didn't know if I wanted to send it or not for
fear of being to inflammatory. But when Greenboy mentioned Joe Torre's name I
I felt a little internal nudge.

Respectfully to all,

Brian Fields

[e-mail]

and BTW There is a book out there if anyone is interested on the ADSP 2105
called "Digital Signal Processing Applications....using the ADSP-2100 family"
by the Applicatrions Engineering Staff of Analog Devices, DSP Division.
It is put out by Prentice Hall ISBN # 0-13-219726-X.

It comes with a PC disk and has boatloads of sample code for any interested
parties.

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From [e-mail] Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:25:01 -0500
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X-Message-No: 1539 (database)
From: Serge A Guilbert <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: THANKS BEN & JAMIE -Reply
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 08:25:00
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-->Hi Ben,

-->I would like to thank you for the wonderfull software that you, Todd &...


Well thought out, Dave. I fully echo those kudos.


Sounding off;
Serge A. Guilbert, B.Eng
CAE Electronics, Flight Simulators, Sound Group
[phone] x4129
[e-mail]

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From [e-mail] Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:41:08 -0500
X-SystemInfo: Studio 16: EMail
X-Message-No: 1540 (database)
From: Serge A Guilbert <[e-mail]>
To: studio16 <[e-mail]>
Subject: SMPTEOut -Reply
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 08:41:00
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-->!Just finished teaching another 16mm filmmaking workshop at my studio,..

Pretty neat stuff.

-->elsewhere than SMPTEOut. I would suspect Bars&Pipes is using true 30 frame
-->timecode and not the video 30 frame (29.97) rate. Then you most definitely
-->would experience a drift.

The B&P manual is pretty vague on this point. I finally got fed up, and started
using 30DF everywhere. In my case, though, I don't have to worry about synching to
video.



Sounding off;
Serge A. Guilbert, B.Eng
CAE Electronics, Flight Simulators, Sound Group
[phone] x4129
[e-mail]



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X-Message-No: 1542 (database)
From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Serge A Guilbert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SMPTEout -Reply -Reply -Reply
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 10:38:00
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Serge A Guilbert wrote:

>OK. I understand the Amiga synching with the genlock, but how does the Amiga
>synch with SMPTEOut? After all, SMPTEOut is a free-running module.

It seem to use the audio.device interrupt.. (guessing).


- Kenny

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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] A4000 and GVP scsi host
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 10:44:00
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greenboy wrote:

>>zorro II (GVP) scsi controller.
>Kenny, has that system ever been reliable for you? The GVP card gave me tons
>of grief and unreliability in both my 4000 and 2000 -- until I got the

The card says HD8+ A4000, but in my A2000 it worked fine - in my A4000 it
waits ~30 seconds before booting if I use the IDE drives simultainously. I
don't have a boot jumper on the card which would solve that (as I have the
impression other gvp cards has).


- Kenny

From [e-mail] Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:24:26 +0900
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---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From: "Raymond" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>,
    <[e-mail]>,
    <[e-mail]>,
    <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: VIRUS WARNING !!!!!!
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:27:51 +0100

Homepage:www.tip.nl/users/raymond.m


----------
> Van: [e-mail]
> Aan: [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail];
[e-mail]; [e-mail]
> Onderwerp: VIRUS WARNING !!!!!!
> Datum: donderdag 29 januari 1998 8:01
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------- Forwarded by Michel van Wijngaarden/RAC/RSG on
> 29-01-98 08:57 ---------------------------
>
>
> Caroline Gielissen
> 29-01-98 08:47
> cc:
> Subject:  VIRUS WARNING !!!!!!
>
>
>  VIRUS  WARNING !!!!!!
> If you receive an email titled "JOIN THE CREW" DO NOT open it.
> It will erase everything on your hard drive. Forward this letter out to
as
> many
> people as you can. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many
people
> know
> about it. This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM;
please
> share it with everyone that might access the internet.  Once again, pass
> this
> along to EVERYONE in your address book so that this may be stopped. Also,
> do
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From [e-mail] 31 Jan 98 10:38:22 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: Serge A Guilbert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SMPTEout -Reply -Reply -Reply
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Serge A Guilbert wrote:

>OK. I understand the Amiga synching with the genlock, but how does the Amiga
>synch with SMPTEOut? After all, SMPTEOut is a free-running module.

It seem to use the audio.device interrupt.. (guessing).


- Kenny

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From [e-mail] 31 Jan 98 10:44:10 +0100
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From: Kenny Nilsen <[e-mail]>
To: greenboy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [S16] A4000 and GVP scsi host
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 10:44:00
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greenboy wrote:

>>zorro II (GVP) scsi controller.
>Kenny, has that system ever been reliable for you? The GVP card gave me tons
>of grief and unreliability in both my 4000 and 2000 -- until I got the

The card says HD8+ A4000, but in my A2000 it worked fine - in my A4000 it
waits ~30 seconds before booting if I use the IDE drives simultainously. I
don't have a boot jumper on the card which would solve that (as I have the
impression other gvp cards has).


- Kenny

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